good players without reading books
 

there are some very good players who dont read books at all. they say that the books are not neccessary because the real secrets are not written down.
i dont understand how they come to that conclusion when they didnt read the book

but i believe some dont read books, but who can they be very good players?
i dont understand that.

everybody needs some theory to play. or is it a such a big feeling for the game, they dont need to read books?

Re: good players without reading books
 

daniel negreanu has atleast read "poker for dummies"
/end thread

Re: good players without reading books
 

You can become good at all manner of things and never read a book. As they say the real secrets, at the higher stakes, are often psychological and some people are just better put together for that kind of thinking. There are plenty of things you simply cannot learn from books but must learn from experience and having natural talent. Many of us can read endless books but have trouble learning from our experiences. I say "us" but of course I mean I.

Re: good players without reading books
 

I've read in those "books" that if you can read your opponents then you can win without knowing any theory.

Re: good players without reading books
 

Of course its possible to become a good player without reading books. Thats what everybody did 40-50 years ago.
I belive the first poker book written that was any good came out in 78 (super system). Doyle Brunson and Johnny Moss were probably the best in the world at that time. How did they learn to play? By playing a lot, thinking a lot, and discussing a lot with other players.

Its probably true though that most will learn faster by using books in their poker studies.

BTW: Some even belive that books can be hurtfull. That it messes with your "feel" for the table.

Re: good players without reading books
 

Many of them(who deny reading) simply lie about it.

It sounds better to say you didn't read a book.

b

Re: good players without reading books
 

i think there may be a few that have been highly successful without books... and many of those started before there were many good books.... i have no doubt that these top players would have lost alot less money in their learning stages if they had good books (no-limit especially) to read. i mean, how many good no-limit books were there 4 years ago??

i agree it's exciting to say you have never read a poker book, but i'd say 99% of people who say that are terrible players... i also think you're starting to see alot of players who were considered good because they were on TV early in the boom aren't so good.

lastly, would you really expect to become a top chess player without reading a book? relevent question? i'm actually curious as i don't think ivey/greenstein have read too many poker books. BTW, i love books but i'm not sure reading 10 is that much better than reading a couple and really sticking to them (LGB, NLTP for example)

Re: good players without reading books
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've read in those "books" that if you can read your opponents then you can win without knowing any theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a misstatement. It's more like the great players who haven't read books know the theory and concepts that it takes to be a good player. Even if they don't have a label for something like "implied odds" or "first-in vigorish", they understand and apply these concepts. Instead of learning these concepts from books, they've learned them through thought and experience.

There are many ways for a player to learn how to be good at poker. But most players who don't bother to pick up a book become bad players because they don't think about the game critically and they therefore make the same mistakes over and over. Guys like Negreaneu et al are the exception: they learned the game by thinking about it critically and by playing lots of hands.

My point is that just playing a lot and relying on that experience is not going to make you a good player. Critical thinking is the key to becoming a good player. For some people, reading a book about a subject helps them to think critically about it. For others, they don't learn as well by reading books. Viva la difference.

btw, I'm talking about poker books that actually make you think (by guys like Sklansky, Miller, Ciaffone, etc.); not cookbook-type books like TJ Cloutier's crap.

Re: good players without reading books
 

For example, Scott Fischman never read a book in his life. But he lived in Vegas, worked in casino and knew a lot of pros who helped him. For us, who don't live there and most of us don't know any poker pro personally to help us out, our only tool are books and forums and playing a lot.

Re: good players without reading books
 

and even when read the good books, 80% or more of the pokerplayers will lose, only 2% can play poker for a living.
that means that the books help, but the real talent is more important