Emotional Affairs
 

Do you guys think people can actually have an emotional affair? I was listening to a local radio station today and they were talking about this guy who wrote in and said his wife had confessed to an emotional affair with a colleague and he didn't know what to think about it. He wasn't even sure he was that upset about it.

I don't get the term. I've had crushes on guys before but I certainly wouldn't call it an emotional affair. I've had friendships with guys who I confided in but hell I wouldn't call that an emotional affair either. And why would the wife confess such a dumb thing anyway?!


And while we're at it, which of these actions would make you more upset,

- your significant other goes out for a private lunch with the same guy (girl) from work every week, or
- your significant other talks on the internet with some strange guy (or girl)?


Would either of these things bother you? Are we not allowed to form friendships and bonds with people of the opposite sex once we're in a relationship?

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Most sober, attached females (or males, for that matter) aren't going to go to Barnes and Noble and bang the first guy they strike up a conversation with. There has to be an emotional attachment first.

Emotional attachments (affairs) aren't harmful in and of themselves. It's the fact that they open the door for a physical affair later. The relationship simply progresses over time.

Without an emotional affair, the physical affair rarely happens.

Can you have an emotional attachment to someone other than your mate? Sure. Do you have to be on guard and careful where it could lead? Absolutely.

Yes, my wife having an emotional attachment to another man would bother me greatly. Only because she may get caught in a vulnerable moment.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

I don't mind a girlfriend/wife having great friends of the opposite sex, as long as she keeps it in check. Lunch every day with a guy sounds a bit much, but if every other possibility, every day, really sucked, I dunno. I suppose I wouldn't care if she did that with a ladyfriend, so it would be on the lame side not to trust her to be an adult just because she has a friend who is a guy. That wouldn't really be trusting her as an adult at all. And if I don't feel like I can trust someone, I don't like to prolong the relationship anyway and should be looking for a way to get out, not keep the unhappiness going.

Frankly, I suspect there's something a little wrong with a person who can't relate to or befriend anyone of the opposite sex outside family and GF/BF or hubby/wifey type things, and there's something a little wrong about feeling like you have to check up on them about it. If you do, there's something else deeper going wrong with the relationship that has nothing to do with the friend, and you should probably address that first.

Now if she were taking time away from me to do it, or doing it after work, I'd feel bad or suspicious and neglected. That's one of the things that makes me uncomfortable about the internet affair possibility. It's one thing if you have a lot of internet "friends," but your real life comes first, and zeroing in on one person on the net, especially when you have one with you right there at home, seems to me unbalanced. Amusements are fine, but if you "need" to talk to someone and gain emotional sustenance from them, you should work on your primary relationship(s), not try to have your cake(your big fat cake of disappointment, that is!) and eat it too. Or you should decide it's past working on, break up, and move on with your life. Maybe even ask yourself what's wrong with you and work on that.

Sharing emotional stuff on the net is pretty easy, and a great way to iron out your feelings and express yourself, and explore how you think, on a lot of things. But it's a pretty miserable substitute for a real relationship, no matter how fantastic the people you "meet" on the net. It needs to be kept in perspective. If you're going to have a double life, it should at least be two real ones. Or, said another way, since I'm enjoying thinking up really dopey metaphors, some other guy on the internet can be your footstool, but you should be sitting on your husband. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

My $.02 adjusted for inflation and after taxes is that like most things in the world, it depends.

It depends most on the level of emotional intelligence and maturity of the people involved. If all parties are emotionally intelligent and mature enough, then things could be fine so long as the attachment didn't violate the boundaries of the established relationship in the pair bond. These boundaries will be different for each pair bond and will also depend on the nature of the emotional attachment outside the pair bond.

In the vast majority of cases, this is probably asking for trouble.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Unfortunately, that's probably closer to the truth than I'd prefer. However, for me that ties into my idea that most people who get married probably shouldn't have, at least if they did so young. Sucking at lots of stuff is pretty much par for the course, and emotional maturity is just one more thing to suck at, like anything else. Being married doesn't change that.

P.S.: For people worried that their partner is a douchebag, Why do you think that they chose you?

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Are we not allowed to form friendships and bonds with people of the opposite sex once we're in a relationship?

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This is an interesting one. The trends seems to be no, we cannot. But I have a friend of mine from the gym, she's married with three kids and we routinely get breakfast or otherwise hang out. It's not that I'm non-threatening either, she just doesn't see the problem with it. She told me a guy recently mistook her wanting to hang out with him as romantic interest, which led to a bit of discomfort but she and her husband are presumably fine with it.

On the flip, another friend of mine from the gym who is also married recently solicited a female member to hit tennis balls. She played in college and is very good. Word of this raised a bunch of eyebrows, like he's somehow committing an infidelity by practicing his tennis. No doubt he did ask her partly because of her looks, but I know him and it wasn't going farther than that.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Yeah, that's weird. Sometimes I hear stuff like this and wonder if we're just yearning to go back to some sort of Islamic-type fundamentalism and fear of our sexuality or something. The idea that we are so completely out of control of ourselves seems more absurd than honest.

But at least it makes thinking easier. Which I suppose is really the whole point.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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What about the girls?

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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I find it hard to believe you have never known an unattractive woman.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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I find it hard to believe you have never known an unattractive woman.

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C'mon, Blarg. With enough VO and Cokes, there are no unattractive women..... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Sorry for leaving my own thread! Had to watch Dancing With the Stars and The Bachelor. Priorities [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


Roundguy,

This is what I was wondering about,

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Emotional attachments (affairs) aren't harmful in and of themselves. It's the fact that they open the door for a physical affair later. The relationship simply progresses over time.

Without an emotional affair, the physical affair rarely happens.

Can you have an emotional attachment to someone other than your mate? Sure. Do you have to be on guard and careful where it could lead? Absolutely.



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I wasn't clear on what exactly an emotional affair was. So you're defining it as an emotional attachment between both parties? To me, an affair is a physical affair. Anything else is great friendship, flirting or longing, but not an affair.

I think you can have attachments and great friendships without it going to the next level.

I read something awhile back that said having an emotional affair is just another kind of adultery. I was like come on, you gotta be kidding. Seems sort of ridiculous. Adultery is the physical act.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Lunch every day with a guy sounds a bit much, but if every other possibility, every day, really sucked, I dunno. I suppose I wouldn't care if she did that with a ladyfriend, so it would be on the lame side not to trust her to be an adult just because she has a friend who is a guy.


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I admit I would have a problem with my guy doing the lunch thing with a female friend and therefore I wouldn't do it with a male friend. Also, I think it would raise eyebrows at my office.

Now that I've been giving this some thought, I guess I can see what people are talking about. An emotional "affair" is the beginning stage of a real affair. It's going on secret dates and sharing intimacies and stuff. But I think there's another category of attachments. You can have a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex and still draw boundaries. Like not go out on lunch dates or give each other backrubs [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]... maybe just share intellectual conversations and tell each other funny stories.




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It's one thing if you have a lot of internet "friends," but your real life comes first, and zeroing in on one person on the net, especially when you have one with you right there at home, seems to me unbalanced. Amusements are fine, but if you "need" to talk to someone and gain emotional sustenance from them, you should work on your primary relationship(s), not try to have your cake(your big fat cake of disappointment, that is!) and eat it too.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] But you internet guys are so amusing.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Adultery is the physical act.

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Agreed. But don't you see how an emotional attachment can easily lead to that?

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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You can have a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex and still draw boundaries. Like not go out on lunch dates or give each other backrubs [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]... maybe just share intellectual conversations and tell each other funny stories.


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This one I'm not so sure I agree with you on. My fiance, soon to be wife in 4 days, doesn't like the fact that I do meet people for lunch of the opposite sex. But for me I view lunches and dinners out as a good chance to talk with people. I do that with any friend, shouldn't matter if they are female or male. Where else should I talk to my female friends? Should we go out for drinks to talk, probably not. Should we go back and get lunch at the house? Again probably not, so for now, for me at least, going out to eat is a good in between.

Edit: I should note that this is provided everybody is paying for themselves and I do let her know every time I'm out so I don't hide anything and it gets perceived the wrong way.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

I don't understand the whole emotional affair thing. It seems like an office politic thing to me. It complicates work, complicates relationships, and makes entering a relationship far more daunting.

Katy, I sort of remember a thread about this earlier, and I think it was yours. Do these problems inhibit your own relationship or desire to find a boyfriend?

I have known some girls who I wouldn't want to have sex with. I know one right now who would be ranked a "9," but I would not want to enter any kind of relationship with her. It is not because I value our friendship, but because she has many unattractive qualities that I don't want around me 24/7.

Theoretically, there should be a one and only, and that ought to be your center of happiness. I would think that losing that person would be ample reason to behave. If you are really worried about who your life partners friends are, then there are some problems in your own relationship, but I guess those insecurities come with it.

I had a conversation with one of my exes about this. We both agreed that different people are going to have different relationships to each other. I can joke and have fun with certain people, and other's I cannot joke in these ways, but they are my friends. In my g.f., I see several qualities that I love and adore, but perhaps with her, there are things that I cannot say. Although I can reasonably expect her to have "all of me," I realistically cannot. Humans need to have various outlets. I could joke with one girl I know about being a [censored], but the other one would be deeply offended.

Each one knows the sensitive/ dirty half exists, but I don't think they want to witness both sides constantly. I know that who ever I choose to date is because she shows me the face I want to see the most. I can't see why her talking to other guys should offend me, because I know that there are things that she wants to see, but not from me. While hearing a guy talk immature and dirty may be funny to one girl, hearing it from her perfect mate isn't so appealing.

btw, I am single and never entered a serious relationship, perhaps my opinions would change at that point.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Adultery is the physical act.

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Agreed. But don't you see how an emotional attachment can easily lead to that?

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Only if the people are looking for an affair. You have to have some self control RoundGuy!

I once got emotionally attached to this one guy. He was so much fun, he was from Germany. He'd come sit down at my desk and talk to me several times a day. I would correct his English. I don't know, we just seemed to mesh. He invited me over to his place so he could cook for me. Anyway I was attached to someone else so it didn't go beyond friendship and actually I didn't want it to. It was a very awesome friendship. Hm, now that I think about it maybe it was a wannabe affair that never materialized. Good god I don't know what the hell it was. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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i have female friends who i am not attracted to, but i kind of agree. i wouldn't go so far as to say guys are just interested in sex, but i think there is often some level of mutual attraction in most male-female relationships.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Katy, I sort of remember a thread about this earlier, and I think it was yours. Do these problems inhibit your own relationship or desire to find a boyfriend?


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lol [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Are you suggesting that I'm always thinking about affairs? How dare you!
I should have run this thread topic by Mrs. Utah first. I usually do the old "Hey, I've got this idea for a thread. Have I posted this topic already?" and then she says "uh duh, like just last week spacehead", and I proceed to work on a different idea.


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Theoretically, there should be a one and only, and that ought to be your center of happiness. I would think that losing that person would be ample reason to behave.


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Given my personality type, i feel i'm behaving remarkably well mister! All kidding aside, I think some of us just really like to get to know a number of different people. We need it. And I agree with your comment that humans need to have various outlets.



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While hearing a guy talk immature and dirty may be funny to one girl, hearing it from her perfect mate isn't so appealing.



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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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- your significant other goes out for a private lunch with the same guy (girl) from work every week, or
- your significant other talks on the internet with some strange guy (or girl)?

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lunch every day seems a bit much, so i would probably being lying if i said the first one wouldn't bother me at all. however, i don't think i would lose sleep over it worrying about whether she was cheating on me.

in the second scenario it depends on the context of the internet chatting. is it web forum/message board, something like aim/icq/msn?

in the end i think that even if someone feels like they need multiple outlets, they should be ready and willing to set them aside if it truly makes their significant other uncomfortable.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

my weary world experience is that many/most men and women both get super-turbo-jealous if their significant other displays any affection whatsoever, be it platonic, emotional, sexual, or abstract, for any member of the opposite sex, even if they trust that their SO would never cheat on them.

ex: katy wouldn't want her guy lunching with opposite sex. either katy fears it might lead to an affair, in which case she doesn't trust her guy, or she trusts her guy but feels jealous anyway for some unexplained reason.

i don't claim to understand this phenomenon, but i have observed it time and time again. the best course of action, if you want to avoid hurt feelings and annoying 3-hour-conversations, is not to have any contact with any member of the opposite sex other than super-boring-professional interaction with co-workers.

i don't think this is the way things should be, but it seems to be the way things are.

/grumbling

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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I know that who ever I choose to date is because she shows me the face I want to see the most. I can't see why her talking to other guys should offend me, because I know that there are things that she wants to see, but not from me. While hearing a guy talk immature and dirty may be funny to one girl, hearing it from her perfect mate isn't so appealing.

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Wow, your post was so interesting, especially the first line quoted, which is a kind of explosion of honesty. There's a lot about it that could be utterly damning, but there is interwoven a mature acknowledgment of one's own limitations and the compromises others, even perhaps those no more balanced or mature whatsoever, must make to accommodate it that is kind of breathtaking. I think there could easily be a fantastic thread on this idea itself, if people were honest and forthcoming. Which, on the other hand, it's highly unlikely anyone would be. I've tried to ask people for penetrating honesty in threads before, and those threads tend to be quickly buried and none too soon.

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I had a conversation with one of my exes about this. We both agreed that different people are going to have different relationships to each other. I can joke and have fun with certain people, and other's I cannot joke in these ways, but they are my friends. In my g.f., I see several qualities that I love and adore, but perhaps with her, there are things that I cannot say. Although I can reasonably expect her to have "all of me," I realistically cannot. Humans need to have various outlets. I could joke with one girl I know about being a [censored], but the other one would be deeply offended.


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Do you feel at all bad or threatened that some people can give her what you cannot, or will not? Have you ever felt in any way resentful that there are things others can provide her that you cannot?

I got a grin out of your saying what is reasonable is not necessarily realistic. True enough. We often have to deal with less than that.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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i have female friends who i am not attracted to, but i kind of agree. i wouldn't go so far as to say guys are just interested in sex, but i think there is often some level of mutual attraction in most male-female relationships.

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That this throws people so incredibly severely shows how much our society has regressed, or at least never matured. Whatever happened to happy, harmless flirting? Everything has to be sturm und drang these days. Being mutually attracted to each other doesn't mean that anything is going to happen or that either party wants it to. I would hate to think an attractive, personable woman would have to withdraw her best qualities and ugly herself up to be deemed worthy of friendship. Are only ugly people worth befriending? Is befriending everyone merely a prelude to rubbing uglies? I don't think so. We can be incredibly perverse and childish about beauty and attractiveness sometimes. I really don't agree with this view of people that paints us all as morons, and it seems to me that people don't live their lives like that anyway. It's a mental trope that has become popular, but it's as ridiculous in its way as turning on Fox to hear your news. It's more than just simplified; it's greatly ramped up and idiotized.

It isn't deadly or sinful or anything remotely negative to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Nor is it determinative of anything at all, besides being born. It shouldn't be used as an excuse to abandon one's principles. A casual appreciation of another's attractiveness shouldn't turn the world head over heels, or even be particularly remarkable. If one isn't attracted to multiple people one has no intention of pursuing, said "one" must be living entirely indoors or be full of sh*t. You move on, you can even be friends, you can even flirt. And then you go home to your partner and it counts for exactly zero, besides the little bit of amusement and affirmation it was.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Do you feel at all bad or threatened that some people can give her what you cannot, or will not? Have you ever felt in any way resentful that there are things others can provide her that you cannot?



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Of coarse. I remember one of my old roommates and an exes relationship.

With him, she was more at ease, more talkative, more laughing. They were able to go out an have beers. Sexually, he was disgusted by her, but I always wondered what would happen if they got super drunk one day. He obviously wouldn't touch her because we were best friends, but it didn't make watching them two any easier on me. In the end, I shared the same pillow with her, and that was the most I could ask for.

Resentment, yes, because I wanted that part of her for me always, but because of our relationship, I couldn't see that part. There is a huge difference between friends and S.O.s. I was able to relate to his GF in ways that they could never relate, but that was because I wasn't involved in their ties, and I never had a desire to break that tie.

I, as a joke, walked into their bedroom and closed the door, "saying, hey baby." It was the only time he and I fought.

My roommate and I were able to be very honest with each other, and we talked openly to each other about how our relationships with each other's gf was different. We both envied how each one of our girls was able to be so at ease and just be out for the party, to really have fun.

Evolutionarily, we are wired this way. For whatever reason, we believe that our S.O. is the best person in the world, even if no one else could see it. To see that there is a world that could be better that is not ours, that we cannot supply, threatens us, and forces us to fight harder to keep our relationships together.

I am single now, and I think it is the above that makes me want to be alone, and this was what I was trying to address to Katy. These emotions are hard to deal with sometimes to be sure. What is more frightening is how these emotions cause others to do or say things that were not meant to be said or done. I wonder if most break ups are simply dealing with the thought that people are not able to supply every thing toward each other. That people think the other is miserable when he or she is not, and this short-coming is too hard to deal with: an admission that the S.O. is able to do better, when really, they can't.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Interesting idea. I've had women question why I wanted to be with them, when I seemed brighter or more driven than they were, and it made them feel like they couldn't possibly keep up. Yet I had plenty of problems of my own, and limitations, and even fully acknowledging their limitations as real, were I to do so, wouldn't change the fact of my own shortcomings or make them less appropriate mates. The truth is that we all have to make compromises more or less odd or unexpected, and sometimes the burden is over-rated. Making compromises is the norm, and being relatively happy with them probably is too. Who can be a perfect match in every way to someone? Who has no areas that need work yet even at the same time no areas that particularly outshine one's partner?

But there are limits. My brother introduced me to a lady worth about $40 million the other week, a good friend he really hoped I could get with. She was beautiful. I wasn't up to it. And I think it was fairer and more realistic to the both of us that I wasn't.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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i have female friends who i am not attracted to, but i kind of agree. i wouldn't go so far as to say guys are just interested in sex, but i think there is often some level of mutual attraction in most male-female relationships.

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That this throws people so incredibly severely shows how much our society has regressed, or at least never matured. Whatever happened to happy, harmless flirting?

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i didn't mean to say that any male-female relationship has a mutual attraction and therefore must result in sex. my point was that it's something worth bearing in mind b/c by and large people are more likely to get close to members of the opposite sex that they find attractive in some way or another. we could argue all day why, i'm just pointing it out. this doesn't preclude anyone form establishing a relationship w/someone who isn't beautiful, but experience tells me that it's less likely(for better or for worse).

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If one isn't attracted to multiple people one has no intention of pursuing, said "one" must be living entirely indoors or be full of sh*t. You move on, you can even be friends, you can even flirt. And then you go home to your partner and it counts for exactly zero, besides the little bit of amusement and affirmation it was.

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i agree, it counts for as much as you allow it to. however, i also think casual attraction can blossom into something greater, very easily.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

It makes me sad to see you say that you are less likely to be friends with someone you aren't attracted to. That's not how I view friendship at all.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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Do you guys think people can actually have an emotional affair? I was listening to a local radio station today and they were talking about this guy who wrote in and said his wife had confessed to an emotional affair with a colleague and he didn't know what to think about it. He wasn't even sure he was that upset about it.

I don't get the term. I've had crushes on guys before but I certainly wouldn't call it an emotional affair. I've had friendships with guys who I confided in but hell I wouldn't call that an emotional affair either. And why would the wife confess such a dumb thing anyway?!


And while we're at it, which of these actions would make you more upset,

- your significant other goes out for a private lunch with the same guy (girl) from work every week, or
- your significant other talks on the internet with some strange guy (or girl)?


Would either of these things bother you? Are we not allowed to form friendships and bonds with people of the opposite sex once we're in a relationship?

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From what I have read, an emotional affair is cheating without the sex. The emotional affair isn't just casual flirting or harmless friendship, it's everything you're supposed to have with your SO. But, do not.

I find the whole concept an annoying cliche. "He/she understands me and we have such deep and meaningful conversations...I think we're soul mates...bla bla bla."

I also think that the people having emotional affairs are disingenuous hypocrites. They're like all those evangelical Christian girls taking vows of abstinence who then, when polled, are statistically having higher rates of oral and anal sex than their peers.

Further, from my own perspective, I work in a small office with two women. One, who is fifteen years my senior, I like a lot and one is my age and I can't stand her. Although I have to confess that, physically, I would like to have sex with each of them, in neither case would I enter into any kind of emotional affair, because that would be extremely unfair to my current girlfriend.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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my weary world experience is that many/most men and women both get super-turbo-jealous if their significant other displays any affection whatsoever, be it platonic, emotional, sexual, or abstract, for any member of the opposite sex, even if they trust that their SO would never cheat on them.

ex: katy wouldn't want her guy lunching with opposite sex. either katy fears it might lead to an affair, in which case she doesn't trust her guy, or she trusts her guy but feels jealous anyway for some unexplained reason.

i don't claim to understand this phenomenon, but i have observed it time and time again. the best course of action, if you want to avoid hurt feelings and annoying 3-hour-conversations, is not to have any contact with any member of the opposite sex other than super-boring-professional interaction with co-workers.

i don't think this is the way things should be, but it seems to be the way things are.

/grumbling

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I don't have time right now to respond to all these great posts. Late for work again.

Drew I agree. People do get super jealous and I am right up there with the rest of them. If I saw my bf flirting with another girl or taking a girl out to lunch I would be really jealous and hurt.

However, on one level I'm able to realize that my guy is going to need to have other friendships and other women over his lifetime as I just can't satisfy all his needs. I mean I'm great but I'm not that great! I'd just really rather not witness it is all [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].
For me to think he will never be attracted to any one else is ridiculous.

Now I'm not saying my guy should go off and have a physical relationship with another girl. That would kill me. But close, non-physical bonds I think are to be expected over a lifetime, aren't they?

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

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It makes me sad to see you say that you are less likely to be friends with someone you aren't attracted to. That's not how I view friendship at all.

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let me clarify my meaning.

less likely in so much as i think there is a selection bias as to how people make friends. i realize it sounds very shallow to say that, but i think its naive to believe otherwise. when we meet/interact with someone, no matter how briefly, we evaluate their physical characteristics on some level. it might be saying the person is pretty, or tall, or fat, or has nice hair, or dresses well but we are doing it whether we know it or not. this is even more pronounced when we meet members of the opposite sex and i think that the initial stages of a male female relationship are essentially the same whether it becomes romantic, platonic, or doesn't develop at all.

friendship isn't formed in a few minutes, or a brief meeting, but you obviously can't make a friend without meeting him/her first. many/most of the exchanges we have will be very brief, as such in an initial meeting/the short term a person's physical characteristics will tend to have a greater influence than personality/character/other intangibles over our impression of that person. while the latter characteristics are certainly more important, we just don't get that much information about them without a lot of repeated contact.

sometimes the contact happens naturally because of jobs, common interests, etc and other times the contact has to be sought. in the former case the first impression will matter less and less as time goes on, but in the latter case i don't think we can help but rely on them in determining which people interest us.

this is where i think the selection bias occurs. operating with a little information can be worse than operating with none, but that is what is occurring. now i'm not going to say, "we had a decent conversation, but i don't want to see that girl again b/c i didn't find her particularly attractive." however, i would be lying if i said (all things being equal) her being pretty wouldn't make me even more interested in seeing her again.


this doesn't mean that i wont take interest in anyone who literally does not catch my eye. i just think that physical characteristics play a strong role in the short term.


edit: i don't view friendship "that way" either in the sense that i'm evaluating prospective friends solely based on how attractive i think they are. i just think it is a factor early in the equation, whether or not it should be. call it a flaw in the mechanism.


i imagine this isn't going to be a very popular theory and maybe i'm way off, but that's my two cents.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

blarg,

this isn't about casual friendships or flirting, it is about being 'emotionally intimate' (however you want to define that) with someone of the opposite sex. like others have alluded to, i think emotions are tied to physical attraction and sexual desires. i don't think a man a women can be emotionally intimate without being attracted to each other and desiring each other, atleast that is my experience.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

Have none of you ever seen "When Harry met Sally"?

All of the rules for this are in that movie.

[ QUOTE ]
Harry Burns: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally Albright: Why not?
Harry Burns: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally Albright: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: You only think you do.
Sally Albright: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry Burns: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: How do you know?
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally Albright: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too.
Sally Albright: What if THEY don't want to have sex with YOU?
Harry Burns: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally Albright: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.
Harry Burns: I guess not.
Sally Albright: That's too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Harry Burns: Would you like to have dinner?... Just friends.
Sally Albright: I thought you didn't believe men and women could be friends.
Harry Burns: When did I say that?
Sally Albright: On the ride to New York.
Harry Burns: No, no, no, I never said that... Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can... This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know it's Hollywood and all of that but I think there really is some merit in this.

Would I be upset if my wife had a male friend that she was terribly close to and shared her time and secrets with ie, an emotional affair? Hell Ya I would, unless he was gay and that wouldn't count because then it's just like her being close to another girl which is OK because this is what girlfriends are for.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
blarg,

this isn't about casual friendships or flirting, it is about being 'emotionally intimate' (however you want to define that) with someone of the opposite sex. like others have alluded to, i think emotions are tied to physical attraction and sexual desires. i don't think a man a women can be emotionally intimate without being attracted to each other and desiring each other, atleast that is my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was talking about being friends, which I think you were originally talking about too when you said that men and women can't be friends.

I think "emotionally intimate" is a bad phrase, too, in that it conflates being emotionally connected with the kind of intimacy that one would expect from a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife, as if there is no other way to share deep emotions. Yet we grow up sharing them with many people we don't want to boink -- parents, siblings, relatives, friends at school, etc. It takes a determined turning away and turning off of emotional possibilities to claim that there really are none outside of one's relationship with one's partner. It just isn't true.

Can you confide in guy friends? Get great advice from them, some real empathy and good feedback and some concern sometimes? I can. Some of that stuff can go down real deep. But I can also get that from a female. And not necessarily have the slightest physical interest in her, or at least be able to keep it well in perspective.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
blarg,

this isn't about casual friendships or flirting, it is about being 'emotionally intimate' (however you want to define that) with someone of the opposite sex. like others have alluded to, i think emotions are tied to physical attraction and sexual desires. i don't think a man a women can be emotionally intimate without being attracted to each other and desiring each other, atleast that is my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I don't think "emotional affairs" has anything to do with friendships.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adultery is the physical act.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But don't you see how an emotional attachment can easily lead to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the people are looking for an affair. You have to have some self control RoundGuy!

I once got emotionally attached to this one guy. He was so much fun, he was from Germany. He'd come sit down at my desk and talk to me several times a day. I would correct his English. I don't know, we just seemed to mesh. He invited me over to his place so he could cook for me. Anyway I was attached to someone else so it didn't go beyond friendship and actually I didn't want it to. It was a very awesome friendship. Hm, now that I think about it maybe it was a wannabe affair that never materialized. Good god I don't know what the hell it was. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He wanted you. Why can't women see this?? If an unattached man is giving you attention, more often than not, he wants to get in your pants.

There are certain things that are just plain inappropriate when you're in a relationship: dining out (one on one) with a "friend" of the opposite sex is one of them. Sure there are exceptions, and it can be completely innocent, but on the whole it's just not respectful of your significant other.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

don't know if you ever saw this, Katy:

Dr Dom - why men and women can't be friends

Granted, I was being over-the-top to make a point, but a lot of it still valid!

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Harry: "... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it?"

[/ QUOTE ]


Well hell yeah there's something missing from the relationship! Of course there is. It's naive to think we would all be satisfied by one other individual. It is not possible I tell you! People need to have a variety of friends and aquaintances throughout life. It's not an affair though. It's a FRIENDSHIP.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adultery is the physical act.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But don't you see how an emotional attachment can easily lead to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the people are looking for an affair. You have to have some self control RoundGuy!

I once got emotionally attached to this one guy. He was so much fun, he was from Germany. He'd come sit down at my desk and talk to me several times a day. I would correct his English. I don't know, we just seemed to mesh. He invited me over to his place so he could cook for me. Anyway I was attached to someone else so it didn't go beyond friendship and actually I didn't want it to. It was a very awesome friendship. Hm, now that I think about it maybe it was a wannabe affair that never materialized. Good god I don't know what the hell it was. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He wanted you. Why can't women see this?? If an unattached man is giving you attention, more often than not, he wants to get in your pants.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is pretty funny how women can't see this and actually have a hard time believing this but it is almost universally true. Unfortunately, it is also true even if you remove the "attached" part of that statement. A smaller percentage of attached men but there is still always that bunch who are trying to hit it or at the very least think about what it would be like.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
blarg,

this isn't about casual friendships or flirting, it is about being 'emotionally intimate' (however you want to define that) with someone of the opposite sex. like others have alluded to, i think emotions are tied to physical attraction and sexual desires. i don't think a man a women can be emotionally intimate without being attracted to each other and desiring each other, atleast that is my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was talking about being friends, which I think you were originally talking about too when you said that men and women can't be friends.

I think "emotionally intimate" is a bad phrase, too, in that it conflates being emotionally connected with the kind of intimacy that one would expect from a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife, as if there is no other way to share deep emotions. Yet we grow up sharing them with many people we don't want to boink -- parents, siblings, relatives, friends at school, etc. It takes a determined turning away and turning off of emotional possibilities to claim that there really are none outside of one's relationship with one's partner. It just isn't true.

Can you confide in guy friends? Get great advice from them, some real empathy and good feedback and some concern sometimes? I can. Some of that stuff can go down real deep. But I can also get that from a female. And not necessarily have the slightest physical interest in her, or at least be able to keep it well in perspective.

[/ QUOTE ]
My understanding of the term emotional affair is that you develop very strong feelings and desires for another person, only you don't act on them physically. In other words, you are Bill Murray in Lost In Translation. You are close to someone and feel strong energy between the two of you and open up yourself to them in an intimate way that you would only do with someone you were physically attracted to... i think you can see how this is different than discussing politics over lunch with a female and not feeling anything for her.

Re: Emotional Affairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adultery is the physical act.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But don't you see how an emotional attachment can easily lead to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the people are looking for an affair. You have to have some self control RoundGuy!

I once got emotionally attached to this one guy. He was so much fun, he was from Germany. He'd come sit down at my desk and talk to me several times a day. I would correct his English. I don't know, we just seemed to mesh. He invited me over to his place so he could cook for me. Anyway I was attached to someone else so it didn't go beyond friendship and actually I didn't want it to. It was a very awesome friendship. Hm, now that I think about it maybe it was a wannabe affair that never materialized. Good god I don't know what the hell it was. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He wanted you. Why can't women see this?? If an unattached man is giving you attention, more often than not, he wants to get in your pants.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is pretty funny how women can't see this and actually have a hard time believing this but it is almost universally true. Unfortunately, it is also true even if you remove the "attached" part of that statement. A smaller percentage of attached men but there is still always that bunch who are trying to hit it or at the very least think about what it would be like.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you might think about strikes me as entirely irrelevant. I've thought about nearly everything I can even imagine, but that doesn't mean I want to really do more than a tiny fraction of it. Everybody else's story is pretty much the same. The mere fact that thinking about sex is possible is a ridiculous basis for ruling out friendships with half the human race.