Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

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no one fears a c/r?

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Not really. We could have the best hand already and, if not, we have a monster redraw. Risking check through is worse than risking c/r, in my opinion.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

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i'm not sure if the rest of you are levelling me or have never played live poker

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QFMFT. When (if) you play live you will "profile" opponents based on their mannerisms, hairstyles, fashion, etc. etc., so it's not "wrong" to profile by race.

Unless, of course, you refuse to change said profile even if a certain opponent doesn't fit it.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

grunch...

bet, and call a check raise. You've got 9 outs to a nut flush, and will get crying calls on the river cos pot's big.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok so no one is worried about getting c/r'd on a QJ98 board? it's true that we have outs if behind, but why pay two bets to draw? surely we don't have the best hand very often against three opponents, and we don't have enough opponents to bet for value -- if everyone were to call we would need ~12 outs to fashion an equity edge here.

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I don't get it... 12 outs? If you get checked raised, you're paying 2BB for a pot of ~11BB. That is a pot odds of 5.5:1, which would be more than enuff to let you hit your flush.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

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i'm not sure if the rest of you have never played live poker or are boz and just being a bitch for the sport of it.

actually i'm pretty sure about one of those.

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i'm pretty sure both of these are right.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

mild hijack of my own thread imminent:

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[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure if the rest of you are levelling me or have never played live poker

[/ QUOTE ]
QFMFT. When (if) you play live you will "profile" opponents based on their mannerisms, hairstyles, fashion, etc. etc., so it's not "wrong" to profile by race.


[/ QUOTE ]

it's not just poker, either. someone stops you in the street to ask for directions. you will know, with 99% confidence, in the first three seconds of that conversation if you are speaking with a local (in which case you give one set of directions) or a domestic tourist (in which case you give another set of directions) or a foreigner (in which case a third set). does this make you a racist? or are you just using all the information available (like a good poker player!) to provide the best solution?

anyway, this makes me a little testy because i'm such a slobbering fanboy of world culture. there is so much fear of "racism" that i can't even describe a person's obvious ethnic heritage without drawing penalty flags[**]. besides, i sat -- stoically -- through waaaay too many n*gger jokes at Thanksgiving to have my racial ethics called into question.


[**] most non-americans may read this as "drawing yellow cards". aussies can read it as "blarging shimble banthers lolol" or whatever the [censored]. see how worldly and culturally sensitive i am?

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

also tyler i bet here fwiw

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

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maybe my devil's advocating needs a little work?

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Demonic worship ban imo?

Bet and see it get raised by button or someone and lose probably half the field who you want putting money in. Check and the world checks with you. So bet already.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's not just poker, either. someone stops you in the street to ask for directions. you will know, with 99% confidence, in the first three seconds of that conversation if you are speaking with a local (in which case you give one set of directions) or a domestic tourist (in which case you give another set of directions) or a foreigner (in which case a third set). does this make you a racist? or are you just using all the information available (like a good poker player!) to provide the best solution?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the problem I have, Tyler (and, fwiw, I have no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for the current culture of offense, either): saying, "He's x," and expecting me to read, "ah, that means he's y at the poker table," is you expecting me to have the same experiences you do.** In other words, your asking us to critique your play without actually giving us a read.

Also, your example isn't really on-point. If you looked at a guy on the street and said, "Hmmm, he's wearing a t-shirt that says [something in German], he must not live around here I'd better not ask him for directions," that would be closer. Once you've spoken to him and realized that he's not a local, you've seen him play a hand and so you have a better read than just a default.

** fwiw, in my experience at Commerce/Bay101/SD Indian (sorry, non-immigrant Americans) casinos, the most likely worshipers of Gamblor are Latinos. Aisans are much more likely to be LP-TA. Middle Eastern/Eastern European players might as well be flinging chips onto the table with both hands.

Re: (value) bet this turn?
 

Checks with outs.

I suppose there are more hands that beat you right now than you can value bet into, and given your reads - I can't find as much value.

A check may induce a weaker hand to bet or check/call a river bet. A raise will invite a re-rasie from those hands that are beating you -

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]