NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

NL100, 2/3 blinds. Average loose table.

After getting extremely lucky on the flop and turn, how do I maximize this hand?

UTG+1 has about $300
UTG+2 has about $350 and is extremely loose
MP2 (Hero) has about $450
CO (villain) has about $400 and has shown a lot of aggression (not sure if he's playing real hands or not though)

Preflop: UTG+1 opens for $10, UTG+2 calls, I call with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO raises to $30, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, I call

My initial limp is questionable but I figure I could play trickier with deep stacks in a fairly loose passive game. I'm pretty sure I'm behind when CO raises and it gets called twice, but by then I am getting 5-1 on my money and figure my cards are live.

Flop ($120): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Checks to CO who bets $40, folds to me, I call

I thought about leading out and letting CO raise in case he has a real hand, but I felt he will likely fold if I lead into him plus I was fairly certain he was going to bet and I rather have one of the other 2 players check/raise commit themselves.

Turn ($200): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check, CO bets $50, I minraise to $100, CO minraises to $200, I push, CO folds

I really don't think anyone can put me on a 4 given the mathematical improbability of that event plus the preflop action.
I was hoping he had a big pair and would call my all-in. Given what I know, I probably should have just checked and let him catch up or bluff all-in river.

But not knowing what he would do before I push, what is the best line here?

Re: NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

When he b/3b the turn, there is no way for you to lose, so I'd probably just tank before calling his raise to $200. On the river, he has ~$130 left, so I'd just tank for awhile, act confused (giving off that "Is your overpair better than my overpair?" vibe), and then bet.

Re: NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

if you would have made a real raise then he probably would have reraised you and been committed.
as played, I like the shove on turn better than calling to see river. unless he hits a set the river can basically only bring scare cards for him, and checking river to hope he bluffs into this pot would obviously be stupid

Re: NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: UTG+1 opens for $10, UTG+2 calls, I call with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO raises to $30, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, I call

My initial limp is questionable but I figure I could play trickier with deep stacks in a fairly loose passive game. I'm pretty sure I'm behind when CO raises and it gets called twice...

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think they all don't have 4-high?

Re: NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I'm behind when CO raises and it gets called twice...

[/ QUOTE ] lol [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, not sure I would have made the call PF with that hand myself (I tend to prefer 67s-89s better, as they have just a little bit more going for them in strength and I've just been reading Doyle Brunson's section on NLHE in SuperSystem2 again!) but I'm also a total nit.

I think calling the turn, then having a think and pushing on the river is better. CO says he's got a decent pair so I don't really see too many scare cards for him (you might even get really lucky when Villain hits his set/'nut' boat).

Your min raise and shove does start to look very much like a 4, despite the PF action. You really expect to get a call if you shove on the river and CO does have a big pair although, given the fold on the turn, I wonder what he really did have...

Incidentally, I really try to avoid min raises (especially min c/rs) myself because they tend to scream "monster". I love seeing other, predictable players doing it, though, because I know exactly where I am in the hand - which is practically dead. For that reason, in fact, leading out on the turn might actually have disguised your hand better.

Re: NL100, howto maximize hidden quads
 

Preflop: First of all, you didn't limp, so don't use that term. Once the pot is raised, no one is limping anymore. You CALLED.

And you called a raise from UTG that was over called bu UTG+1 and you are not in position. FOLD. But you called, then it was raised and called back to you - since you DO close the action PF as played, it is a MARGINAL call of the re-raise as you are still out of position vs the PF re-raiser. You need to hit this flop REALLY hard. I'm more apt to fold.

NOTE: Instead of worrying about how to extract on your rare quads, think about how to save money by not spewing your chips left and right preflop like some lagtard.



FLOP: You got very lucky, congrats. I like the check/smooth call.

TURN: You improved, so I like the check raise. Though I hate min raises, maybe it's okay here to illicit the re-raise. Once he did re-raise, though, tank for a long time, then just CALL and PUSH RIVER.

Leading this turn is actually a good choice though too. Right now the pot is at $180, so a $90 (half pot) bet is getting called by pocket pairs, which is what you are hoping that CO has. And if you're lucky, he has AA or KK, and is re-popping it. Because if you lead here, he is LESS likely to assume you have a 4, and MORE likely to assume you have pockets.


AB