Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]
PHILADELPHIA, Nov. 13 (UPI) -- Two Philadelphia police officers were shot and wounded Tuesday night as they attempted to break down the door of a suspected crack house.

Both officers were treated at hospitals and released within a few hours.

Police said seven people in the house were arrested after a three-hour siege, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

The wounded officers were the fifth and sixth in the city to be shot in two months, including Officer Chuck Cassidy, who was mortally wounded when he walked into a robbery at a Dunkin' Donuts two weeks ago.

"We buried a cop less than a week ago," said Chief Inspector William Colarulo at Temple University Hospital, where one of the new victims was taken. "And tonight we have two officers shot. I think I can speak for the entire department when I say we're fed up."

The department asked reporters not to use the two officers' names because they were working undercover, the Inquirer said. They were wearing plain clothes with their badges visible at the time of the shooting.


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link.

Why were plain clothed officers kicking doors in?? I'm certainly not one to call for attacks on police, but if you kick down my door without a highly visible police uniform on, the results will be, well, uniform.

Opinions?

Also, can we please keep jokes about this:

[ QUOTE ]
The wounded officers were the fifth and sixth in the city to be shot in two months, including Officer Chuck Cassidy, who was mortally wounded when he walked into a robbery at a Dunkin' Donuts two weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

to a minimum? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regardless of the lack of intelligence the UC's showed, this looks like another useless casualty in the War on Drugs to me.

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of the lack of intelligence the UC's showed, this looks like another useless casualty in the War on Drugs to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without doubt. Someday, I hope, this whole thing will be looked upon by future generations as a period of madness, kind of how we look back on prohibition.

natedogg

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

vic macki type stuff. undoubtably these cops should be quietly retired, at the least.

I mean, no mention of warrant. ususally they say something about "while serving a warrant"

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

You might be interested in this report if yo haven't read it yet, Dbl:
Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]

I mean, no mention of warrant. ususally they say something about "while serving a warrant"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Police said the undercover officers made a controlled purchase of cocaine from the building at 1:45 p.m. Tuesday. They returned at 6:30 p.m. with a search warrant and a battering ram to take down the door.

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Article

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

oh. I thought he posted the whole article. from the article it looks like they left some stuff out. original post made it look like the two officers were by themselves, the article doesn't say, but pretty sure there were more than just those 2 officers.

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

I agree with dblbarrel here, if some random person who just bought coke from me breaks into my home I will shoot them. I don't see how they thought buying coke then returning less than 5 hours later with street clothes and guns and a battering ram would end up without bloodshed.

I don't think these coke dealers should be charged with any crimes related to the deaths of these cops.

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think these coke dealers should be charged with any crimes related to the deaths of these cops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Although, to be fair, neither of them died, but they shouldn't be charged with the injuries either.

I've had numerous discussions with both NARCs and TROs (Tactical Response Operators), who always seem to disagree on the issue of No Knock warrants. The Narc guys love these warrants, mostly because they don't know any better.

I'm unaware of the specifics of police training in Philly, but here in GA, detectives are minimally trained tactically, if at all. They have this mentality that "The offender will flush the narcotics before opening the door."

While that may be the case, the TROs have real tactical training, and realize how much danger you're putting yourself in anytime you execute a no knock.

No Knock warrants do have a place in LE, but the only time they should be used is to save a life, not for drug offenses.

If the police have reason to believe an individual is holding a kidnapped child hostage on a tip, but has no visual confirmation, that is the place for a No Knock. (In GA, you do not need a warrant to enter a property if you have confirmation that a kidnapped victim is inside)

I personally don't like the No Knocks, didn't use them much, but then again, when I was on the street, I had a Captain with a brain, so these types of things weren't of issue.

Our standing policy was "If you make the buy, you don't get to make the bust".

We also had a rule strictly forbidding any officer from wearing a mask while serving a warrant, unless it was approved by the brass.

The only time it was approved was in situations where we were dealing with an organization with enough muscle and intelligence to make retaliation a real possibility.

That's another issue I have. I haven't seen where it said they were or not, but I would be willing to bet these two were wearing masks. If you kick down my door wearing a mask, you're target #1.

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Although, to be fair, neither of them died, but they shouldn't be charged with the injuries either.

I've had numerous discussions with both NARCs and TROs (Tactical Response Operators), who always seem to disagree on the issue of No Knock warrants. The Narc guys love these warrants, mostly because they don't know any better.

I'm unaware of the specifics of police training in Philly, but here in GA, detectives are minimally trained tactically, if at all. They have this mentality that "The offender will flush the narcotics before opening the door."

While that may be the case, the TROs have real tactical training, and realize how much danger you're putting yourself in anytime you execute a no knock.

No Knock warrants do have a place in LE, but the only time they should be used is to save a life, not for drug offenses.

If the police have reason to believe an individual is holding a kidnapped child hostage on a tip, but has no visual confirmation, that is the place for a No Knock. (In GA, you do not need a warrant to enter a property if you have confirmation that a kidnapped victim is inside)

I personally don't like the No Knocks, didn't use them much, but then again, when I was on the street, I had a Captain with a brain, so these types of things weren't of issue.

Our standing policy was "If you make the buy, you don't get to make the bust".

We also had a rule strictly forbidding any officer from wearing a mask while serving a warrant, unless it was approved by the brass.

The only time it was approved was in situations where we were dealing with an organization with enough muscle and intelligence to make retaliation a real possibility.

That's another issue I have. I haven't seen where it said they were or not, but I would be willing to bet these two were wearing masks. If you kick down my door wearing a mask, you're target #1.

[/ QUOTE ]

since you have experience, do you think the article was just sloppy and the two plain clothed officers served the warrant with like 10 other officers?

if the two were by themselves it seems fishy, I can't imagine just two of them served a no knock warrant on a crack house.

Re: Justified? Actually, I think so! (Not Blackwater Related)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think these coke dealers should be charged with any crimes related to the deaths of these cops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Although, to be fair, neither of them died, but they shouldn't be charged with the injuries either.

I've had numerous discussions with both NARCs and TROs (Tactical Response Operators), who always seem to disagree on the issue of No Knock warrants. The Narc guys love these warrants, mostly because they don't know any better.

I'm unaware of the specifics of police training in Philly, but here in GA, detectives are minimally trained tactically, if at all. They have this mentality that "The offender will flush the narcotics before opening the door."

While that may be the case, the TROs have real tactical training, and realize how much danger you're putting yourself in anytime you execute a no knock.

No Knock warrants do have a place in LE, but the only time they should be used is to save a life, not for drug offenses.

If the police have reason to believe an individual is holding a kidnapped child hostage on a tip, but has no visual confirmation, that is the place for a No Knock. (In GA, you do not need a warrant to enter a property if you have confirmation that a kidnapped victim is inside)

I personally don't like the No Knocks, didn't use them much, but then again, when I was on the street, I had a Captain with a brain, so these types of things weren't of issue.

Our standing policy was "If you make the buy, you don't get to make the bust".

We also had a rule strictly forbidding any officer from wearing a mask while serving a warrant, unless it was approved by the brass.

The only time it was approved was in situations where we were dealing with an organization with enough muscle and intelligence to make retaliation a real possibility.

That's another issue I have. I haven't seen where it said they were or not, but I would be willing to bet these two were wearing masks. If you kick down my door wearing a mask, you're target #1.

[/ QUOTE ]
I...I...I agree with everything you said in this post.