Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Mat,

I'd either let those topics be discussed or not.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I must be confused. If we allow self-promotion, it seems we get flooded with spam, even if we limit the number of posts allowed. On the other hand, I don't see why a person should be prohibited from talking about a product he uses or wants to use. And if somebody starts that discussion, it seems only fair that the representative of the product being discussed should be allowed to answer questions or address concerns.

That's my perspective. If there's a better way to go (i am thinking about money in this case) i'd like to hear.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I used to think that the whole no coaching policy was a bit, well, silly. After this leggo thing it became clear to me why it is in place, cause it took one liittle relaxing of the rules for a lot of posters to have the avatars and make the site really spammy imo, which can kill any good forum.

I also think the current policy of "It can be discussed, just not by the service themself" works great. I wouldnt want Taylor starting a CR thread but dont mind talking about it. I also think he understands this forum a little better and isnt as aggresive as other services. When CR is mentioned he only talks when it is really warrented (i.e. direct q or criticism) whereas I see 3 bet coaches and LP people pop up every thread even remotely about them.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Mat, E:

All that does is penalize guys who have more integrity, because anyone wanting to spam their services just has a friend (or other account) post about them.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Mat,

I think he's trying to point out that everyone has a zillion friends that they can just say "hey make me a thread that I can spam in, I'm not allowed."

If the goal is legitimately to cut down on unpaid pimping, disallowing discussion of coaching/services that are not paid advertisers here would be one (I think silly/bad) way to go.) I think that something possibly better is to not allow coaches/service providers to post in those threads or give descriptions of their services at all (unless they are paying to do so?). This obviously has flaws as well. Probably more thought required.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

solution: use the software forum as the model. Create a third "other teaching resources" forum. Sites and coaches are allowed to create one thread in OTR just like they are allowed to do in the software forum, and one thread only which they can maintain ala a tech-support line. Anyone can start a thread asking about a coach but the coach/coach company has to refer people to that thread to discuss.

1) stops spam

2) encourages coaches to use 2+2 as their support forum keeping more traffic here at 2+2

3) stops friends of coaches from making dummy spam threads which allow the coaches to promote in non-teaching forums

4) allows 2+2 to upsell advertising to coaches, featuring a special coaching package. My vision is a package that includes the right to have their logo as an avatar, this seems to be a key issue for coaches so we should let them have it - its a fair trade off in exchange for their financial support of 2+2.

5) 2+2 because coaching central for the poker community.

Lets all keep things in perspective. Some of these coaching sites wouldn't exist if it wasnt for 2+2, and some of them PROBABLY make more money through coaching than 2+2 does through advertising. Its time for us to get back on track, 2+2 is the top of the food chain - lets act like it!

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

TT,

"Some of these coaching sites wouldn't exist if it wasnt for 2+2, and some of them make more money through coaching than 2+2 does through advertising."

100% correct. A primary reason a number of them even exist is because 2+2 didn't bother to expand its offerings. I mean, except for the sweet classified ads section, of course.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

tt,

Does that include a thread for each individual coach? I get a lot of people asking me about where to post as they are just starting as individuals.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
tt,

Does that include a thread for each individual coach? I get a lot of people asking me about where to post as they are just starting as individuals.

[/ QUOTE ]

with my vision yes this would be a catchall allowing individual coaches to start one thread. Coaching companies like CR could also start one thread. Then individual coaches from coaching companies can start their own non-affiliated thread. The moderator would have to enforce the no-gratuitous bumping rule of course but bumping for new content that is redeeming to the coaching community and the coaches students is of course acceptable.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

TT,

I think your solution is a pretty good idea.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I think TT has a decent point about the software forum, programs like PAHUD, Full Tilt Shortcuts, AHK scripts got a huge amount of free exposure on the forum. Some are not for profit but I definitely found out about PAHUD/Holdem Manager/FTS etc from the software forum, and I had to pay for them. Its hypocritical to allow one and not the other.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its hypocritical to allow one and not the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer to use the word oversight. There is a time and place for everything, for example if my proposal is approved I wouldn't expect it to be rolled out immediately, things take time to get all the ducks in a row. Patience is a virtue, users (not singling out you or other mods, I'm talking users only) who think its hypocritical take the internet way to seriously or they are pissed because they are loosing free advertising.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Some of this has been my problem to struggle with, in a different way.
Even when I was performing as a "ghost mod" in Home Poker, I wasn't sure how over the line that HP was getting.

We're constantly giving free advertising to websites, companies that sell items, etc... just by answering threads and adding a link, or referring people to a site for certain items they are asking about. I tended to pick out the spammy ones, but our regular posters do this a lot (I did, as well).

I was even thinking about having a sticky with links, as part of an FAQ, to certain sites such as homepokertourney.com and chiptalk.com, some of the game-listing sites, and so on. This discussion has made me rethink that idea.

I'm not sure if Home Poker should have a different standard that some of the other forums, or if we need to crack down somehow. I'm not quite sure what standard I should be setting in the forum.

AJFenix and Mat, thoughts?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

While certain links were clearly removable, certain links did slide that were about table assembly, chipsets, etc. Some of those sites may have had some advertisements on their pages, but it was relatively harmless, probably nothing that was competing with 2p2 revenue, and the links themselves were helpful and pertained to the discussion. I'm def interested in what Mat thinks as to where to draw the line with links that go to pages with ads. I think using judgment as has been done up to this point is best, personally, but if there is to be a specific ruleset thats fine.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I generally agree, but the recent crackdown on coaching posts and avatars makes me think that Mat's input would be helpful.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

This needs further thought, so we'll have to continue with silliness for awhile. Just do what you feel is best.