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No reads or stats on villain. I was thinking about c/c as to snap off whiffed draws but my hand takes away alot of drawing outs so it made me not want to c/c any large bet.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($91.95)
UTG ($22.90)
Hero ($50)
CO ($62.20)
Button ($46.50)
SB ($53.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.75, CO calls $1.75, 3 folds.

Flop: ($4.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, CO calls $3.

Turn: ($10.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, CO calls $8.

River: ($26.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero....

Hmmmm check/call if he bets small and check/fold if he bets big. I think if villian has missed draws most of the time they don't have the balls to bluff at the river. I just started playing cash so I don't know if I'm right or not.

To be honest, I don't see anything you beat here except a busted draw or a bluff, and as you noted you're holding several likely cards in the drawing range. Given the action so far, I guess he's on a range of something like Jx/Qc9c/KcQc + random PP's and SC's and air.

There are probably enough club draws in that range to put you ahead, but how much of that does he bet with?

Maybe a blocking bet of around $11 and fold to a raise?

Stack sizes dont allow that. If I bet 11 then I have almost 1/2 of the effective stack in the middle, theres no folding after that point.

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Stack sizes dont allow that. If I bet 11 then I have almost 1/2 of the effective stack in the middle, theres no folding after that point.

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rofl...yes there is.

You should be concerned about valuetowning yourself against hands like QJ/KJ. The good thing is, after you bet 2 streets, alot of villians will check these behind, some even AQ. However, they also check behind worse jacks. Then there are the missed draws.

So basically, if you c/c, all you beat is a bluff.

You can b/f 1/2pot, however you are valuetowning yourself frequently and lose value from the few bluffs that would take a stab.

TBH, i think a c/c is ok.

Villain shoved river, you still calling?

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Villain shoved river, you still calling?

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meh...cant say without being there. Too many factors...ull see a busted FD alot though.

btw, if you had a better read, turn C/R is sexy.

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rofl...yes there is.

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So you dont think puttin in 1/2 your stack and then folding is a pretty bad thing to do overall?

I wish I had a read but this was either my 1st or 2nd orbit so no such luck. My HUD doesnt come up on ppl until I have 50 hands on them so that was useless too. As far as calling the river, his shove is an overbet so Im not getting even 2:1.

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rofl...yes there is.

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So you dont think puttin in 1/2 your stack and then folding is a pretty bad thing to do overall?

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it happens. Look at your hand and the equity you have on the flop/turn. You still have some on the river too. you can c/f here to. sometimes thin value turns bad. sometimes its truely thin value. Its identifying these spots well that makes the difference.

If you cant handle it then check the turn for pot control, if he bets, then semibluff c/r. then you cant fold, your FE is good, and your equity is reasonable.

I definitely agree a turn c/r is nice but I dont like doing it vs unknowns. I have no reason to think he will bet for me but actually now that I think about it, its probably not bad either way.