425 bb deep with AA
 

$400nl- 5 handed

folded to co who makes it $14, I 3 bet to $50 with AA from the sb. He calls. He has $1.7k+, and I cover.

Flop: 7hJhQd

I bet $65, he calls.

Turn 3s

I bet $160, he calls.

River 8c.

whats your plan?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

History?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

easy b/f $410

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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easy b/f $410

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edit: I'd also make it more pf being that A) we're oop and B) we're 425bb deep

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

reads?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

pot 550...

i prob check/call a lot, unless he can't vbet worse hands for us and def checks KQ/AQ behind here. That being said the only hand that plays it this way, that bets this riv, that has us beat, imo, is T9.

sets defo raise this deep no later than turn, of course, fd plays it the same prob, even some combo draws may play it this safe...

i def check and re-eval...

again, any read?

care to give us any read?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

bet/fold? are there any other options really?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

if bet/fold is your actual line you'd think you'd take in this spot (granted he provided us with 0 reads) this is a freaking easy check on the riv, imo.

you are bet folding to T9 here and bluffs...i'd rather check and hope to pick off a bluff or KQ/AQ type hand from him here. again a bit read depenedent, but a bet/check on this riv oop depends solely if villain calls a vbet with KQ/AQ, or if checked to checks/bets behind (a worse hand)

and if you are saying bet/fold with no reads, i'd much rather check/call. I mean, i see the other line, where we could get value from KQ/AQ, and perhaps that instead be better...but i think a lot of draws that missed, KT, AK, fd, etc...could easily as well bluff this river if checked too. I dont think it's a clear bet/fold line as much as check/call line with 0 reads.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

really hard to see what beats us with this action. I could see b/c b/f and c/c all being viable lines depending on reads.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

Can he ever have AQ or KK here? Will he bet them if checked to? These are the two most important questions in deciding our line I'd say.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

Most people aren't going to fire off a buyin with AQ if you check to them I think. bf.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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in order to induce a bluff? AQ/KQ just calling this riv if lead into, if not, folding.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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I don't think so. He's unknown and the pot is huge.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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History?

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no, I'll always post if there's any history.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

id go about $380, i wouldnt plan what to do if he raises becuase i never think he does.

if he does raise river, i check my tiltdar, if on tilt due to other tables then i snap call his raise, if i am not on tilt i find a fold.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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I don't think so. He's unknown and the pot is huge.

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I would def take this line against some regs. If he is unknown I like b/f (2/3 pot) since 400 NL is fishy, he probably isn't slowplaying and could def call AQ/KK/KQ

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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easy b/f $410

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edit: I'd also make it more pf being that A) we're oop and B) we're 425bb deep

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I thought of doing this, but I figured that would be obvious to a decent player if all the sudden by 3 bet was $60+ instead of $50. To me, it seemed like it would basically tell him I have a huge hand and he has very large implied odds to call.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

hmm, surprised no one has said c/c yet. It would def depend on villiain, like if he was way passive then i would bet/fold, but i think vs a decently aggro player I would c/c

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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[ QUOTE ]
History?

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no, I'll always post if there's any history.

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How the f do you both have 400 bb at table w/o any history or reads?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
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easy b/f $410

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edit: I'd also make it more pf being that A) we're oop and B) we're 425bb deep

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I thought of doing this, but I figured that would be obvious to a decent player if all the sudden by 3 bet was $60+ instead of $50. To me, it seemed like it would basically tell him I have a huge hand and he has very large implied odds to call.

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Yeah making it bigger preflop works only up to a certain stack size. Once you get really deep by making it bigger preflop you are just making ur reverse implied odds bigger.

Tbh i think the best play preflop is to flat call unless villain is a huge retard that doesnt understand hand ranges

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

or u could fake reraise to 500.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

b/f was the first thing to come to mind
i suppose c/c isn't bad if you expect him to bluff a missed flush draw. i just cannot imagine KQ or AQ betting this river if checked to

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] against a guy i don't have history against there's no way I beat anything that raises a bet on the river

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

I'm really unsure what you're expecting from this post. Obviously most people are going to say b/f.

What stands out the most to me is that you're 4+ buyins deep yet you are unable to provide any info on the guy. This is probably because you're multra-tabling (with or without hud); but if you're posting hands in MSNL and are trying to get better, then I just don't get that.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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hmm, surprised no one has said c/c yet. It would def depend on villiain, like if he was way passive then i would bet/fold, but i think vs a decently aggro player I would c/c

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el

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] against a guy i don't have history against there's no way I beat anything that raises a bet on the river

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I strongly disagree with this. Even against unknown if I were to lead for 1/2 pot I would def be calling a 3x/4x raise.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

without reads anything besides betting is pretty awful, imo. this is why you like playing [censored] players deep.

he is checking behind a lot hands. you get to value bet him to death. he doesn't bluff, ever, if you bet. he rarely bluffs if you check. he rarely bets for value with a hand you beat if you check.

players at this level suck at playing deep, big pots so you should take advantage of this by extracting max value in these situations.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] against a guy i don't have history against there's no way I beat anything that raises a bet on the river

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I strongly disagree with this. Even against unknown if I were to lead for 1/2 pot I would def be calling a 3x/4x raise.

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never, ever, ever.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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hmm, surprised no one has said c/c yet. It would def depend on villiain, like if he was way passive then i would bet/fold, but i think vs a decently aggro player I would c/c

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el

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oops sorry

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

"i suppose c/c isn't bad if you expect him to bluff a missed flush draw."

but people dont do this in big, deep pots because, as you may have noticed, all the tagfish wanna c/c.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] against a guy i don't have history against there's no way I beat anything that raises a bet on the river

[/ QUOTE ]


I strongly disagree with this. Even against unknown if I were to lead for 1/2 pot I would def be calling a 3x/4x raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

with the intention of being ahead of what??? that's giving money away.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
without reads anything besides betting is pretty awful, imo. this is why you like playing [censored] players deep.

he is checking behind a lot hands. you get to value bet him to death. he doesn't bluff, ever, if you bet. he rarely bluffs if you check. he rarely bets for value with a hand you beat if you check.

players at this level suck at playing deep, big pots so you should take advantage of this by extracting max value in these situations.

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meh, i disagree, but i am starting to think my thinking may be more from HU experience (as far as letting guys bluff the river, and I think i'm pretty decent at getting value out of ppl)

i think there are a lot of ways to play the riv, but i agree with a lot of what you're saying and i mean, i agree that if you bet and he raises it's almost never a bluff...so in that sense, bet and hope he calls with tpgk..as opposed to check and hope he bluffs a missed draw...anyway, im to chipotle.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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"i suppose c/c isn't bad if you expect him to bluff a missed flush draw."

but people dont do this in big, deep pots because, as you may have noticed, all the tagfish wanna c/c.

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i didn't think it was very reasonable either, but it's the only way i can possibly rationalize a c/c in this situation.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
"i suppose c/c isn't bad if you expect him to bluff a missed flush draw."

but people dont do this in big, deep pots because, as you may have noticed, all the tagfish wanna c/c.

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wtf, bluffing in my experience is more prevalent in deep pots cause stacks are deeper in relation...i mean, so much of this case hand is player dependent...its still hard to put the "proper" play in a vacuum like i started to do earlier, and now you seem to be.

i wish i were a tagfish though. maybe i wouldn't spew so much? or perhaps that is the conundrumdudm [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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you should also consider 1/2 pot / call.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] against a guy i don't have history against there's no way I beat anything that raises a bet on the river

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I strongly disagree with this. Even against unknown if I were to lead for 1/2 pot I would def be calling a 3x/4x raise.

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with the intention of being ahead of what??? that's giving money away.

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a fd or retarded bluff. Much bigger part of his 1/2 pot raising range than set or T9.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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if bet/fold is your actual line you'd think you'd take in this spot (granted he provided us with 0 reads) this is a freaking easy check on the riv, imo.

you are bet folding to T9 here and bluffs...i'd rather check and hope to pick off a bluff or KQ/AQ type hand from him here.

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what bluff type hands do you think he has here by the river?

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

thread shouldve ended at 410/fold.

Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

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History?

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no, I'll always post if there's any history.

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How the f do you both have 400 bb at table w/o any history or reads?

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Re: 425 bb deep with AA
 

yeah I mean i think the decision whether to bet or check is so player dependent, but with no reads(which seems weird this deep) I suppose betting like 2/3 pot is about right.