2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

We can bump this later in the year after it dies down, but I foresee this being LeBron's award to lose from this point forward.

He is playing at the level he played at last postseason. I stil can't believe we had some offseason debates on this board about Kobe v. Lebron.

LBJ 4 MVP.

Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, and KG are also really good at basketball and in my top 5, but LeBron is just too unstoppable.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

http://www.lynx1.com/witness.jpg

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Lebron is the best player in the nba right now but he'll get robbed again, KG will take it if the Celtics win a ton of games (as they should).

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Putting up obnoxious bulk numbers does not equal "MPV" - or at least it shouldn't. Cavs have more talent than Lakers, Cavs play in markedly inferior conference, Lakers have better record. Kobe is a better basketball player - he's just realized (two years too late imo) that he doesn't need to score 40 a game.

LeBron's bulk will decline over time as he shifts from individual excellence to improving his teammates.

Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice, although I agree that Garnett warrants inclusion in that conversation if Boston wins 50+ (same for Kobe, though the 50+ is a lot less likely). Dirk getting a "lifetime achievement award" a la Karl Malone was pathetic.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

KG

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

IrishHand,
LeBron's supporting cast is worse than Kobes. Odom, Walton and Caron are arguably better than anyone on the Cavs.

I think MJ should be number one on the ballot until further notice.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Cavs have more talent than Lakers

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the non-boobie teammates of lebron are simply godawful. i mean, i like z and all, but damn. this is not a good basketball team.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Dirk getting a "lifetime achievement award" a la Karl Malone was pathetic.

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Not only was Dirk the true MVP last year, he was probably robbed the year before.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Putting up obnoxious bulk numbers does not equal "MPV" - or at least it shouldn't. Cavs have more talent than Lakers, Cavs play in markedly inferior conference, Lakers have better record. Kobe is a better basketball player - he's just realized (two years too late imo) that he doesn't need to score 40 a game.

LeBron's bulk will decline over time as he shifts from individual excellence to improving his teammates.

Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice, although I agree that Garnett warrants inclusion in that conversation if Boston wins 50+ (same for Kobe, though the 50+ is a lot less likely). Dirk getting a "lifetime achievement award" a la Karl Malone was pathetic.

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There's nothing in this post that didn't suck.

Recape: you complain that Lebron has more talent around him than Kobe (which is hilarious since his team is as good or worse at every position except maaaybe point, and his bench is worse), you then decide that only Duncan and Nash (best supporting casts in basketball...) should be the only ones n the conversation except KG (other best supporting cast in basketball) "if" Boston wins 50+ (has to be at least even odds).

Then you bitch about Dirk winning an award he deserved, comparing him to one of the best players at his position winning an award that he also deserved.

I award you no points, etc.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

IrishHand is to Kobe as I am to Rondo.

It's okay to have mancrushes.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice

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kthx keep us updated.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

well, i guess this thread's over until irishhand deems otherwise.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice

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kthx keep us updated.

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FWIW, I think that Kobe, LeBron, and KG are all of pretty similar value, but all behind Duncan

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What changed in the last 12 days?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice

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kthx keep us updated.

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FWIW, I think that Kobe, LeBron, and KG are all of pretty similar value, but all behind Duncan

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What changed in the last 12 days?

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MVP != best player to have in the playoffs

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

With respect to LeBron,

He has decided to start bringing it in the regular season. I've always considered him a better talent than Kobe, but have always said I respect how hard Kobe plays during the reg season. Now Lebron is doing that too.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Last 5 games Lebron is averaging like 37/10/9.5 or something similarly ridiculous. He's been playing out of his mind.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

there's no point in even having award discussions until more of the season progresses so we can even make strength-of-schedule adjustments.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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there's no point in even having award discussions until more of the season progresses so we can even make strength-of-schedule adjustments.

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There's no point for most of the threads in this forum. That doesn't preclude discussion.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Informed discussion > uninformed discussion, no? I'm all for pointless discussion, but it's hard for that discussion to be worth anything even in entertainment points when there's not a lot to discuss.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Putting up obnoxious bulk numbers does not equal "MPV" - or at least it shouldn't. Cavs have more talent than Lakers, Cavs play in markedly inferior conference, Lakers have better record. Kobe is a better basketball player - he's just realized (two years too late imo) that he doesn't need to score 40 a game.

LeBron's bulk will decline over time as he shifts from individual excellence to improving his teammates.

Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice, although I agree that Garnett warrants inclusion in that conversation if Boston wins 50+ (same for Kobe, though the 50+ is a lot less likely). Dirk getting a "lifetime achievement award" a la Karl Malone was pathetic.

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It's funny that in the same post you bitch about bulk stats winning the award, you say Dirk didn't deserve it, whose efficiency was the #1 reason that team won 67 games last season. I know xorbie pointed it out already, but it was so retarded it needed to be pointed out twice.

When Kobe's not putting up 40, he's not all that involved. He still takes awful shots with regularity. The "MVP" of the Lakers thus far has been the second unit.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Very surprised to see one of the front-runners left out thus far: T-Mac. It's pretty obvious he is the man when he's active, and when he goes down the Rockets can't win. I don't know how well the Rockets will fare if it was Yao that went down but TMac has to be up there.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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There's nothing in this post that didn't suck.

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I like a man who relies on logic and reason.

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Recape: you complain that Lebron has more talent around him than Kobe (which is hilarious since his team is as good or worse at every position except maaaybe point, and his bench is worse),

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Whaaaaaa?
Ilgauskas is superior to the Lakers C trio. A big 7'3" C who reliably produces 15/8 w/ a couple blocks a game? Give the Lakers a year and Bynum will eclipse him imo, but right now it's not close.
Hughes is better than Walton on both ends of the floor.
Gibson is worse than Fisher imo, but it's close.

At worst, it's a push - and that's clouded by this season where the non-Kobe Lakers have looked better than they are and the non-LeBron Cavs have looked worse (except for Z).

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you then decide that only Duncan and Nash (best supporting casts in basketball...) should be the only ones n the conversation except KG (other best supporting cast in basketball) "if" Boston wins 50+ (has to be at least even odds).

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What's your point? As another posted noted, we already had long thread about the best player in the NBA. The MVP is a subset of that discussion and I don't know how you can rationally get anyone into that duo (or trio) this season. Putting up silly bulk doesn't get past the fact that your team isn't that good. If the Cavs win 50, he should be in the conversation - but Duncan's probably still the Most Valuable Player for the 07/08 season. Dominant defensively (LeBron isn't even close) and changes the face of the game on offense (LeBron also does this).

No clue what you're getting at with the Boston comment. I didn't say anything about likelihood (certainly better than even odds).

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Then you bitch about Dirk winning an award he deserved, comparing him to one of the best players at his position winning an award that he also deserved.

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He only deserved it if both Duncan and Nash withdrew their names from consideration and didn't alert the media. And Malone wasn't even close to deserving it in 97. Have you heard of this Jordan fellow?

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I award you no points, etc.

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Your point system will always be my guiding light.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

"Hughes is better than Walton on both ends of the floor."

gg

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

irishhand,

i'm better than larry hughes.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Very surprised to see one of the front-runners left out thus far: T-Mac. It's pretty obvious he is the man when he's active, and when he goes down the Rockets can't win. I don't know how well the Rockets will fare if it was Yao that went down but TMac has to be up there.

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TMac may be the driving force for the Rockets, but MVPs can't be out for 20 games a season.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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"Hughes is better than Walton on both ends of the floor."

gg

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seriously. He's so atrocious on the offensive end it's ridiculous. Even though Luke is in a little funk this season, it doesn't compare to Hughes' paltry 4 PER rating thus far.

Nice job leaving Odom out, too.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

I was replying to his comment that LAL > CLE at every position except maybe PG. Not much point in noting the obvious Odom>Gooden.

Hughes hasn't done a thing this year, so not much point mentioning his PER or any other stat. It's like saying he's averaging 6 ppg so he's a crappy scorer.

Luke Walton = solid accessory player, average defender at best
Larry Hughes = potential legit 2nd/3rd offensive option, quality defender for 2-3 positions (1 through 3)

If they had the same salary and were healthy, you seriously think Cleveland would trade Hughes for Walton straight up?

Regardless, this is all a senseless debate. Even if LAL>CLE w/o Kobe/LeBron, that doesn't mean that either deserves MVP consideration unless their team does a lot better than it has during the past couple regular seasons (and this one).

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

"If they had the same salary and were healthy, you seriously think Cleveland would trade Hughes for Walton straight up?"

In a second. Well, not under some definitions of healthy.

Hughes is one of the worst players in the NBA. Not one of the worst starters for a contender, worst players period.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

I think Larry Hughes could be better than he is for the Cavs, but it's so obvious he's such a poor fit there. He needs a Nellie ball type of system. Even still, he only had that one season where he was better than average, really.

And as for the "they need to do much better", you're basically conceding that the MVP award is a function of the team's performance. Which historically is true, but it's dumb. Not that Duncan and Nash aren't great, but you think you throw either of those guys in LBJ's place the Cavs become a 60 win team like the Suns or Spurs? No way. They both have incredible supporting casts.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

wtf IrishHand seriously

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

The MVP award is a function of team performance - and it should be. How valuable a player can you be if your team is 30-52? To me, it's an untenable argument to say "this player is the best player in the NBA for this season despite his team's poor W/L record." "Most Valuable" for a given season needs to bear some positive relationship to regular-season wins (since the MVP award is voted on before the playoffs). In the NBA, a lot of players put up gaudy numbers to the detriment of their team (Iverson much of his career, Kobe in the soon-post-Shaq era).

If you put Duncan on the Cavs instead of LeBron, they win more games. There isn't a doubt in my mind. You put Duncan on any team in the NBA in place of their "best" player and I would argue the same point - at least for this season.

It's closer with Nash but I suspect the same would be true - CLE would be a better regular-season team. He's a more efficient scorer and he dictates how a game is player to a much greater extent than LeBron...and he does a far better job improving his teammates.

Hughes is a really poor fit in Cleveland, but that's mostly because they have an awful coach. He's got a lot of talent when healthy - Hughes' "poor" Cleveland years (15/4/4) are Luke Walton's ceiling.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Irish, you have become the Vyse of the sporting events forum.

Right now the MVP is Lebrons to lose. Think about it this way:
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How valuable a player can you be if your team is 30-52?

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If they didnt have lebron, they'd be a 12-70 team, so he's good for 18 wins.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

ugh, hughes is just bad. you gotta watch the guy play. he misses layups. takes bad jumpers. makes poor passes and wrong passes killing offensive rhythm.

i will say he plays really hard.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Iriahhand- It's not a "highest points per game" award, it's a "best player" award, so your Iverson comment is nonsensical. The appropriate test is the one you explain later in your post(all else equal which player would you rather have), which hilariously completely defeats your initial nonsense about regular season success.

Also, Nash>Lebron? You've got to be [censored] me.


Re: Hughes, Hughes is never healthy and has only had one year his entire career that was decent. He's terrible.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Also, Nash>Lebron? You've got to be [censored] me.

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Agreed. It should be more like Nash <blink>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>></blink> Lebron.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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It's closer with Nash but I suspect the same would be true - CLE would be a better regular-season team. He's a more efficient scorer and he dictates how a game is player to a much greater extent than LeBron...and he does a far better job improving his teammates.


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haha. I'd love for this to happen. Oh sweet they missed a shot nice outlet pass. Now I'm running the break. I'm the muffukkin man. Someone is getting a layup I make everyone so [censored] good it's scary. I'm cutting through the lane. Time to hit the trailer. *turns ball over*. wtf?! Where's Amare? *scans floor*. Oh.. he turned into a 7'3" white guy and he hasn't gotten past half court yet. Damn I miss Amare and Marion.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Yeah, he was pretty bad that year Amare missed.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

i really dont think you could swap anyone with lebron and the cavs would be better. i could be biased since i watch all the cavs games and rarely watch other teams so i do have homer persuasions to him.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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ugh, hughes is just bad. you gotta watch the guy play. he misses layups. takes bad jumpers. makes poor passes and wrong passes killing offensive rhythm.

i will say he plays really hard.

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I never said he wasn't an idiot with low basketball IQ - only that he was more talented than Walton. Obviously though, a different opinion from the norm makes me the forum retard. Easy solution to that problem. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

kidcolin,

Your Nash hating has gone too far. He could turn me into a 15 PPG scorer if I got enough minutes, and I'm a slow fat white guy.