Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

start at the beginning I suppose, any experts wanna state they're ranges in each position assuming 100bb stacks for hero and all villans.

I raise all pairs obviously, AJ+ utg and fold the other broadways, then in the HJ all those KQ KJ QJ JT some J9s 98s T9s ect

CO ATo A9s I ll open

button any A and lots of crap, should it be ATC (I steal alot less in the CO or Button if one of the blinds has like 20-30bbs fwiw, thats good rite?)

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

your hijack range is about my utg range.

hijack i would add 87s and sometimes lower.

co def add lower suited aces. i think i open a2s there. a5s in hijack. a8s utg.

i think at stakes 2-4 (sometimes 3-6) and lower you can get away with opening a ton of hands. in my limited experience at 5-10 ppl recognize youre lite and will resteal. plus ppl all overagg aholes anyway so you can punish them by being tighter.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

I used to open those broadway hands suited utg but read somewhere I shouldn't I forget where now.

I forgot to say I raise the Axs in the CO and like 54s ect but again I ll just fold those if one of the blinds has less than like 40bbs and calls alot or the BTN has less than 20bbs. Not sure if thats good to adjust that way vs opponent stack sizes? just what Ive been doing.

assume HJ opens a standard raise what do u 3bet with in the CO, Button or in the blinds, how much does the player matter?

what is ur guys squeezing ranges? say utg opens 4x, one cold caller, are u calling or squeezing with pairs below QQ? assume full stacks and u have postion aka aren't in the blinds. How about hands like AQo AJs ect ect ect...

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

I approach pre-flop a different way. I evaluate the following:
0) Stack Sizes
1) My position
2) Position of my opponents
3) Opponent tendencies
4) My cards
5) Action that occurred before it gets to me
6) Likely action should I raise or limp

You have to have a plan for each hand (thanks Matt and Sunny). Your cards make up an important part of your plan, but always blindly open raising hands like J9s from the CO or folding 87o from MP is probably not the best long term approach.

Now, I understand new players crave starting hand charts. The ones in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book are good.

edit -- I play mosylt 6-max or shorter

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Off suit broadway goes way down in value in NL. At NL you want to play much tighter in EP & MP than in limit.

Also, position is much more important in NL. So much so, that you almost never want to play from OOP after the flop if you can help it at all. Your pre-flop strategy should focus on never being OOP after the flop with out a monster hand. You almost never want to be OOP with a draw (I say "almost" because there MIGHT be an exception, but I honestly can't think of one).

These are my normal starting hand requiorments for FR NL cash games:

EP - Fold all SCs & suited aces. Limp any pair TT & below, but only if the table is mostly passive. If you expect a raise from MP, LP or Button, then fold preflop. If you limp and get a raise from those positions, then fold your pair. If the raise comes from the blinds you can call because you'll have position after the flop, but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, and effective stacks must be at least 80bb. Be prepaired to fold when you don't hit your set. Raise only with premium pairs JJ and up, and AK. Maybe AQ if the table is passive.

MP - Raise all pairs 99 & up. Limp with smaller pairs, SCs 65 and up & suited aces, but be prepaired to fold to a raise from LP or the button. Call raises with these hands from the blinds but remember what I said about the Rule of 5 & 10 and effective stack sizes.

LP - If it is limped to you, raise with any pair, any SC 65 & up, any suited ace. If it is folded to you, then raise with those cards plus any suited king, any suited one-away 75 & up, any ace-face, any suited face cards.

SB - Play the small blind as if it were UTG. Fold liberally, because it just sucks SO much to be OOP after the flop. If has been folded all the way around to you and the button folded as well, then raise with any pocket you might raise from the button, as well as any pocket with at least one jack or higher.

Also any time you are playing a cash game, you have AA or KK preflop and you have a chance to call a raise, don't. Re-raise at least the pot or a little more. If you are re-raised all-in, call. Don't look at your kings and start to second guess yourself. Get your money in the middle.

And another thing - In a FR game LP is later than you think. In a 9-handed game, I only consider the button and the CO to be LP. The hi-jack and one seat to his right is MP. Every other seat is EP.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

fwiw i think people like me who are trying to learn nl should play super rockish pf.

as in, play only hands like PP and AK early and middle position.

and i think offsuit broadways arent particularly good in this game. you guys saw how clueless i was with my AQ in the BB.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think people like me who are trying to learn nl should play super rockish pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct, but only if you're playing FR.

In 6-max the blinds come around so quickly that it forces you to get in there mix it up with lesser holdings. That's why expert players clean up at 6-max - their ability to play marginal hands well after the flop.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

"but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, "

what is this?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Im sure ur basically already following it victor,

if the raise is less than 5% of urs and villains effective stack size call a raise with any PP, if its more than 10% and u have a PP ur only playing for set value its a clear fold (JJ is like the borderline typically from most peoples opinions). 3bet QQ+ obvioulsy and always get it in with AA KK obviously, QQ sometimes fold to the nits big 4bets if for full stacks

imbetween is kinda judgement, how much is in the pot already if its reraised, how loose the players/ blinds are behind and the raiser and how likely u are to stack someone when u connect even when u show mucho strength. Or if ur not gonna play the hand beyond just set value how well u can play if the board comes low and u have 99 TT can u always peel and fold to a turn bet vs villain... things like that.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think people like me who are trying to learn nl should play super rockish pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct, but only if you're playing FR.

In 6-max the blinds come around so quickly that it forces you to get in there mix it up with lesser holdings. That's why expert players clean up at 6-max - their ability to play marginal hands well after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I don't think this is nearly as important in NL as in limit. Blinds are so small compared to stack sizes that defending your blinds becomes less important. Not that you can let people walk all over you, but you don't need to steal/defend with as much crap as you do in limit. Especially since you're out of position in the blinds.

My preflop chart for 6 max:

UTG: 22+; A9o+; A2s+; 54s+; 64s+; Kjo+; Qto+; Jto+; J8s+; Q9s+; K9s+.
Playing all those hands will give you an UTG VPIP of 25.8%; mine's actually around 20%, because I'll only play the weaker hands about 1/2 the time, like when I haven't played a hand in a while, or I feel like I have excellent control over the table, or there's a couple of deep fish. If you're just starting NL, you might want to eliminate the unsuited broadway, weaker aces, and low connectors entirely at first.

UTG+1: Pretty much the same; toss in a few suited kings, and play the marginal hands 70-80% of the time now.

CO: Some high offsuit connectors, suited 3 gappers.

Button: All aces, all suited kings, all broadway, all but the worst suited connectors, good offsuit connectors, decent kings and queens.

Having position after your blind steal fails is pretty important.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
"but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, "

what is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5/10 rule is an important no-limit concept that first appeared in Bob Ciaffone's excellent book, "PL & NL Poker." To quote directly from the book:

"When contemplating calling a raise because your position is good, you have a clear call if the raise is less than 5% of your stack, and a clear fold if it is more than 10%. In between those numbers, use your judgement."

It's a good rule for calling a preflop raise with a pocket pair in hopes of hitting a set. The driving force behind the concept is the implied odds in a given situation. If you get your set, but the opponent only has 5BBs after the initial raise, calling to hit the set in the first place is incorrect.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are so small compared to stack sizes that defending your blinds becomes less important.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutly correct, particularly at FR.

In a NL game, a contested pot can quickly grow to 100 BB or more. So why strive after 1 1/2BB and possibly end up OOP after the flop with a marginal holding? Wait, get a real hand and double up. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
Having position after your blind steal fails is pretty important.

[/ QUOTE ]

The real question is - is blind stealing really that important? Are we playing for stacks or bets?

EDIT - already answered [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
why are we raising all pairs in ep?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excelent question for a 6-max specialist to answer. 'Cause as a FR specialist I would never raise pairs TT and lower from EP. I do limp with them, though, if I think the table is passive. I also do it to disguise my hand, 'cause I like to limp with AA & KK from EP if I belive I will get a raise from a deep stack. Then I re-pop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But if you're not sure you'll get a raise behind, then limping from EP with AA & KK is a gross mistake.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are we raising all pairs in ep?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excelent question for a 6-max specialist to answer. 'Cause as a FR specialist I would never raise pairs TT and lower from EP. I do limp with them, though, if I think the table is passive. I also do it to disguise my hand, 'cause I like to limp with AA & KK from EP if I belive I will get a raise from a deep stack. Then I re-pop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

do you do this with lower pairs also?

what if there is a super LAG to your left (but can fold to reraises (i.e. not a complete moron))?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of it is to diguise the strength of our hand, part of it is because its easier to stack someone in a raised pot when you flop your set.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Yes, I tend to limp all small pairs from EP, but that's because small pairs OOP are super-easy to play.

If you get raised pre-flop from someone who is a short stack, then you fold.

If you don't hit your set, then you check-fold the flop.

Having a super LAG on your left sucks, since he makes it unprofitable to play speculative hands. These guys are usually very aggro post-flop as well, meaning if you play a pot with them you have to start with a hand and expect it to hold up.

Pot-size raises & re-raises also help, since the dirty little secret of the super-LAG is that he really doesn't want to commit all his chips to a showdown.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

"why are we raising all pairs in ep?"

bc sets are really good at winning and generally disguised.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
noob question:

why are we raising all pairs in ep? is this to disguise the strength of our hand when we actually do have a real hand?

what do we do in this scenario:

raise 33 in utg+1, mp3 calls, rest fold.

flop J84

obv cbet and shut down if called/raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

yup obvi cbet HU no matter what on any board, I always shutdown after at NL50 and NL100 without some read/ board texture reason not to

even 3 way I always cbet the one time I havent was a mono board Q98 vs two total idiots who called a ton postflop where i had 33 not of the suit, and maybe I should have even then (I dont think so tho)

the reason we raise all pairs in six max is pretty simple

the two best reasons Ive heard are

1) flopping a set or monster in an unraised pot is basically a crap pot, u cant play for stacks when u want to whereas when u raise it people get more attached to the pot and do stupider things including bluffing more. Plus sets are the hands u want, as laak says often no set no bet in deep NL games so we want the pot large when we hit cuz thats when u feel great about gettin it all in and its easier to do by the turn/river when ur flop and turn bets arent wicked miniscule potting it.

and 2) u win on the Cbet so often HU or 3 ways its all good and easily profitable to raise all pairs even utg.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
"why are we raising all pairs in ep?"

bc sets are really good at winning and generally disguised.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you only hit a set 1 time in 9. So 8 times you will raise, miss your set and have to fold. At 3xBB, that's 24bb it's costing you when you miss. And that's if you don't c-bet. If you c-bet a few times and get played back at, then raising small pairs in EP gets really expensive, and can cost you all the profit you make from the one time in 9 that you do make a set. Provided your opponent pays you off. And then there's set over set, or suckouts to straights & flushes.

FR, overplaying small pairs from EP is just too expensive. 6-max is a little differant, since it's much less likely your opponent has a hand at all, so your small pair just might be best even if the flop comes with overcards.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

i wasnt talkin fr but not raising pairs in six max is pretty piss poor in my opinion... those 7 of 8 times u dont flop a set u take the pot down with a c bet 5 or 6 of them (far more than the 1/3 times u need to break even on the bluff and even less often if u bet alittle less than the pot). so the play (c betting) is definitely +++EV. And again u want the pot larger so its not a crap pot the 1 in 8 times u do flop a set. Sometimes u ll run bad on c bets cuz they ll have hands and wont fold or maybe will resteal (really doesnt happen as often as u think I dont think) but c betting is easily the play, again u only need them to fold 1/3 of the time to make it better than cking and thats if u pot it which u dont have to vs most villains who will fold for 2/3 pot bets or 4/5 pot bets just as easily and never catch on as long as ur sometimes doing it with hands (betting less than the pot)when u know u have to second barrel with TPGK or something and want to control the pot size .

I'm sure these same priniples apply to opening pairs in late mid position and later position in full ring altho I have little experience there.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Compared to 6-max limit holdem

- when the first to act, one gets one (some prefer two, especially on early positions) seat tighter and plays up to all pairs from all positions. With any stack sizes.

- as basic strategy one prefers to come in with an open-raise, even if there's already one limper (or two with the more or less better hands). One thinks about the options too. Some limping under favorable cases and less raising under unfavorable cases. I refer to limit holdem, too.

- as far as I see, the big blind's theoretical defense minimums happen to be around the same as the open-raiser's minimums when it's a standard raise (though 3x means more calling than 4x), maybe cutting some high crap away (but like at limit holdem that's not all important vs. stealers). Vs. stealers one can also re-raise more often, and one does not has to have a strong hand for it every time, e.g. some just below a calling hand could try a re-steal.

- what one should cold call with, I refer to limit holdem, just adding some more implied hands.

- vs. likely big pairs I will muck the suited connectors from all seats - Brunson may think differently - and I don't generally cold call with them without late position or the big blind even vs. theoretical open-raises, and when I call with them they can be one gappers too as the difference is small (75s and 54s is like I look at it).

- I don't rate to cold call (with position and out of the BB) with suited connectors that are under maybe a 45% line until they go under the (open-)raiser's minimums, so I am not dominated too often; in cases, I however might reraise with some of them.

- the subject of the SB has many opinions. I open with maybe 55% of the hands and raise them all (that sure is clear enough, no different from any other position). S&M and Negreanu will raise just the premium hands, e.g. Negreanu says that if he open-raises (vs. the BB who calls with a lot of hands) e.g. some crap ace, it doesn't get value on the flop and if it does it's -EV, so that's his argument against (he is also known more generally as a player who also limps preflop), and the S&M(almuth) think about the horror of being out of position (at limit holdem). (When playing 1:1 the BB (calls) is out of the position but he is not the one who will continue with the bet on the flop, so that's one difference to when the SB open-raises in ring games.)

- I don't cold call on the SB with small nor medium suited connectors like I do when I am on the BB or on late positions.

- what to call a 3-bet with when one open-raised - as far as I see if it's not vs. a big pair then suited connectors and high cards that are good enough often enough (AQ vs. AJ+ has to do), and all high suited hands (gambling) and more or less connected other cards, and all pocket pairs - (the pocket pairs basically against the big pairs too, not the suited connectors, not in my preflop strategy). The re-raise costs that much money that one doesn't has to call more often (and the opponents do not reraise all the time). Vs. a likely steal re-raise one has the option to raise it again.

- should one cold call or 3-bet is one subject; I refer to limit holdem though I am more likely to just cold call at nl-holdem vs. early open-raises when I have a slick hand. But I prefer to reraise the stealers with maybe the 55%+ slick hands, and basically the same goes for pocket pairs vs. all seats, no different from limit holdem other than there are some implied hands that do not need to fold when it's nl-holdem.

- preflop semi-bluff reraises could possibly be made with the first not good enough to call with hands, more vs. stealers who fold a lot.

- the BB's bluff-raise with the Sklansky T5 type of hands is not in my repertoire as one must steal the pot with them a very high percentage of the time in case it's not a big deal of what one holds, just some theoretical minor detail. I think many hands then play better by raising than by checking, e.g. XT when it's unsuited (and has no nut kickers) does not play very well in more or less multiway pots and out of position, so if I am going to make a raise from the BB as a bluff type, it will be with two unsuited high cards in case the quality of my hand matters at all.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

phydauz, im not talking about full ring. do ppl still play that?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
phydauz, im not talking about full ring. do ppl still play that?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes i hear ppl play that at these things called "casinos". these people called "donkeys" often visit these "casinos"

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

It's 6-max vs FR, or as I like to call it "the Jocks vs the Nerds."

Some people belive that if they decide something is right for them, then it's right for everyone. So since they don't do something, then nobody must do it. Because who could possibly disagree with them? Dr. Al calls this the "Ego Fallacy."

Expert NL players like 6-max, and for several good reasons. So many expert NL cas hgame players, and most of the NL cash game pros, gravitate toward 6-max. Leaving the FR tables full of nothing but chumps. And me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So I play my tight/aggressive FR strategy, and the 6-max players berate me for my nitish ways, very similar to the way jocks bully the nerds in jr. high schools. Meanwhile I'm crushing the FR tables, mostly dure to the lack of any real compitition. And I'm experiencing far less varience than my aggro-jock 6-max friends.

So please, all you NL "experts," please continue to play 6-max. Because the last thing I want is for decent players to start showing up at my FR tables.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

interesting. i usually play on ub and rarely see a fr game. usually those tables are for hu matches.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

I didn`t read this thread but the single most important thing preflop in SS-MSNL games is getting it HU with the fish IP.
So for example you are UTG w/Q7s in a 6-max game. There`s a big fish in the BB, other players on the table are average/weak TAGs. You raise.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's 6-max vs FR, or as I like to call it "the Jocks vs the Nerds."

Some people believe that if they decide something is right for them, then it's right for everyone. So since they don't do something, then nobody must do it. Because who could possibly disagree with them? Dr. Al calls this the "Ego Fallacy."

Expert NL players like 6-max, and for several good reasons. So many expert NL cas hgame players, and most of the NL cash game pros, gravitate toward 6-max. Leaving the FR tables full of nothing but chumps. And me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So I play my tight/aggressive FR strategy, and the 6-max players berate me for my nitish ways, very similar to the way jocks bully the nerds in jr. high schools. Meanwhile I'm crushing the FR tables, mostly dure to the lack of any real compitition. And I'm experiencing far less varience than my aggro-jock 6-max friends.

So please, all you NL "experts," please continue to play 6-max. Because the last thing I want is for decent players to start showing up at my FR tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize there is a FR forum that seems to get a lot of traffic? I think you have more competitiion than you realize. There is nothing wrong with playing FR, especially if you are a grinder. I played FR for a year before I got comfortable with 6-max.

If you want to learn how to excel in marginal situations and play a more LAGgy style (24/15 instead of 12/6) then I invite you to visit the dark side or 6-max as you Jedi commonly call it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
You realize there is a FR forum that seems to get a lot of traffic?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I do. Just as I realize that this forum is for people making the transition from limit to NL.

If the mods would like to make an addition to the sticky saying this forum is EXCLUSIVELY for limit players transitioning to 6-max NL, then I'll go away.

However, until that happens I will continue to provide honest answers to honest questions, and share my experiences of what adjustments I had to make when I changed over from limit to NL.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You realize there is a FR forum that seems to get a lot of traffic?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I do. Just as I realize that this forum is for people making the transition from limit to NL.

If the mods would like to make an addition to the sticky saying this forum is EXCLUSIVELY for limit players transitioning to 6-max NL, then I'll go away.

However, until that happens I will continue to provide honest answers to honest questions, and share my experiences of what adjustments I had to make when I changed over from limit to NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa nelly! Don't get your feathers ruffled. I was not attacking you at all, just pointing out that a lot of very solid regulars also play FR.

I enjoy your posts whether they be here or in the other forums. Not sure why you thought I was hinting you shouldn't post here [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

All -- Now we return to the serious business of the Internet.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
I approach pre-flop a different way. I evaluate the following:
0) Stack Sizes
1) My position
2) Position of my opponents
3) Opponent tendencies
4) My cards
5) Action that occurred before it gets to me
6) Likely action should I raise or limp

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much what runs through my head before I make a pf decision. Raising AJo utg can be a mistake in some (many?) games and a no brainer in others.


Some kind of nitty starting ranges that should keep you out of trouble:

utg: AJo+ (drop AJo if you get 3bet alot or you expect 3 or more callers semi-regularly)
A7s+
SCs 56s thru JTs
PPs 44+
KQs, KJs

HJ:
Add A5s+, some suited 2gappers, KTs, QJs

CO:
Add any suited Ace, any suited 2gapper, decent suited 3gappers (J7s),
33/22, ATo, KQo, KJo, KTo, QJo, unsuited connectors

Button:
Add unsuited 2gappers, random suited stuff and whatever you can get away with given the blinds' tendencies. Stay away from A2o-A9o though for now, they're RIO nightmares even with position.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Phy,

It's likely that this forum will be primarily for those going to six max since the majority of limit play seems to be 6-max. So naturally, the majority of LHE players trying to learn NL are going to choose 6-max, because we don't have the patience to be anything but lagmonkeys at FR. (which means we should all go play donkaments, RAR...)

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

OK. resident nolimidonk speaking up. Like 42it (nice to se you posting here and helping out, good stuff Frank) I am a 6 max player, So I'll let phydaux be the nerd and ignore full ring.

So what is this preflop about ??

Is it really the stacks ?? (God I hate that Sklansky book)


Actually, no ... it is still the blinds, just like in limit, a game of poker starts out as a struggle for the blinds and that is actually still the name of the game if you play shorthanded NL hold'em (6max or less).

Can it be about the stacks, sure ... but most people that talk about aiming for the stacks play low stakes where the PLAYERS they are facing are exploitable in one way or the other and so will stack off frequently. In a game like this, you can run tight as hell and just get paid off on your top pairs and set and laugh all the way to the bank. But does this make shorthanded NL a game about the stacks, no not really, it is still about the blinds against competent players.


So how do we construct our starting hands ... well there are the premiums, those are good, but other than that, we are looking for hands with a little extra, which makes pps and soooted cards in various forms good. Most of the time, your cards are irrelevant as you go raise, cbet end off hand, but once in a while you will hit a litte extra.

That is why from the above:

[ QUOTE ]

UTG: 22+; A9o+; A2s+; 54s+; 64s+; Kjo+; Qto+; Jto+; J8s+; Q9s+; K9s+.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is horrid imho, as A9o+;Kjo+; Qto+; Jto+ are disasters waiting to happens (unless you have a read on the player you are targeting that he is hopeless)


While

[ QUOTE ]

utg: AJo+ (drop AJo if you get 3bet alot or you expect 3 or more callers semi-regularly)
A7s+
SCs 56s thru JTs
PPs 44+
KQs, KJs

HJ:
Add A5s+, some suited 2gappers, KTs, QJs

CO:
Add any suited Ace, any suited 2gapper, decent suited 3gappers (J7s),
33/22, ATo, KQo, KJo, KTo, QJo, unsuited connectors

Button:
Add unsuited 2gappers, random suited stuff and whatever you can get away with given the blinds' tendencies. Stay away from A2o-A9o though for now, they're RIO nightmares even with position.

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Looks much better, note the comment about AJo in ep.


Also note, that being loose is an insurance against setmining, as sure you will stack off against sets with tptk, but most of the time villian upon hitting his set (which is difficult) will only win a cbet from you, since you are in there with a wide range of hands.


(There is nothing wrong with being snaredrum tight, but table conditions are not always such, that it is optimal.)

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Hmmm. Interesting.

So Gel, as a 6-max player you're really not looking to play past the turn? Find a guy who'll fold to a c-bet, then beat him up and take his milk money hand after hand, but fold when he plays back at you?

Is that what makes floating so dangerous? 'Cause to be honest, at FR uNl I never float, and I don't see it costing me a dime.

Obviously you occasionally flop a monster, and those times you play past the turn for all your chips.

I can see where TPGK is a higher quality hand at 6-max than at FR. You regularly play for all the money with TPGK?

Anyway, I have a buddy from a MMA forum who happens to be a high stakes NL 6-max player. He's got his own strategy site, and I totally forgot about this article he posted a few weeks ago. Thought I'd pass it along, since it's a good 6-max primer.

Pillaging Short-Handed 6-max No Limit

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. Interesting.

So Gel, as a 6-max player you're really not looking to play past the turn? Find a guy who'll fold to a c-bet, then beat him up and take his milk money hand after hand, but fold when he plays back at you?

Is that what makes floating so dangerous? 'Cause to be honest, at FR uNl I never float, and I don't see it costing me a dime.

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Sure there is a turn, the turn is where you make decisions with your marginal holdings (pot control, either by checking behind flop or turn)

Also you off course balance your bluffing frequencies (2nd barrels) to protect yourself and extract (pure TOP)

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Obviously you occasionally flop a monster, and those times you play past the turn for all your chips.


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Well as said, lets not forget those marginal hands like tpnk and 2pgk etc

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I can see where TPGK is a higher quality hand at 6-max than at FR. You regularly play for all the money with TPGK?


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Depending on board texture and opponents, but going broke with tptk is not something that disturbs my sleep.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

Why are we raising only 44+ UTG and only A5s+ in HJ?

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

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Why are we raising only 44+ UTG and only A5s+ in HJ?

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Because play a naked A OOP on an A high flop is eh suck. With 44, it's usually a c-bet and shut down if called when you miss and YAHTZEE when you hit. With a hand like A5s, position allows hero to dictate the play of the hand and control the pot when an A flops or pump the flop when he hits his draw.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

whats the reason for not opening 22 or 33 in the hj or utg but 44 utg? Is this based on empirical evidence or what? seems like all these low pairs play about the same in NL, u win with a c bet as often, u flop a set as often.. is the small occurance when they have a set in the 22-44 or make a split pair in that range over ur set/pair really decreasing its profit that much more? particularly since in NL people fold bottom pair pretty regularly id assume to a standard c bet.

Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I
 

jstill,

I play 6-max and my standard is to raise all PP from any position. Occasionally I will limp when I am certain a maniac would 3 bet me off my 33 pre-flop.