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op_din is 19/15, 24wtsd, 44wwsf, 3.7/2.2/2.6AF over 40k hands. other 2 players are fish.


Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

vmnielsen (BB): $2,459.45
thebot1001 (UTG): $1,483.75
Op_Dinner_Out (MP): $2,048
chuuky (CO): $471.75
bddy (BTN): $1,666
Hero (SB): $990

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
thebot1001 folds, <font color="red">Op_Dinner_Out raises to $35</font>, chuuky calls $35, bddy folds, Hero calls $30, vmnielsen calls $25

Flop: ($140) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $112</font>, vmnielsen folds, Op_Dinner_Out calls $112, chuuky folds

Turn: ($364) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $264</font>, Op_Dinner_Out calls $264

River: ($892) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">Op_Dinner_Out bets $600</font>, Hero folds

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????????

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I think I'd rather bet/fold the river, but as played, close spot for sure. I would probably pay it off if you're leading out at a lot of flops and can convince yourself he's value betting worse enough of the time (hence my preference for a bet/fold on the river).

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i dont think i donk this... but i would say this fold sucks but is pretty standard

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I dunno, he might be vbetting AJ/AK no?

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just call it instead man

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Whooa. I def vb the river. He will call with worse enough. Now that you`ve checked it`s close.

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Also I don't much like the flop lead.

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o yeah, i forgot to say that i think i bet river if i play it this way

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[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, he might be vbetting AJ/AK no?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think my line looks pretty strong for that. i thought he would really tank if he ended up shoving AK. he took about ~5 seconds.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, he might be vbetting AJ/AK no?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think my line looks pretty strong for that. i thought he would really tank if he ended up shoving AK. he took about ~5 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yea. But what about 2p?

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!!!!

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A7 is the only possible 2pr but maybe.

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i told him i folded AQ and he said he had AK pretty quickly, which makes me think this was a good fold? i think.

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[ QUOTE ]
i told him i folded AQ and he said he had AK pretty quickly, which makes me think this was a good fold? i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is no way he is value betting AK given the action unless he is retarded

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id rather bet fold i think.

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i would think this is a bad fold, really really bad.

but i would also think you should shove the river if you'd ever bluff shove it (i know i would).

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i cant b/f i only have $590.

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River seems like a shove? Idk only hand that he can show up with that beats you here is a flush and there is some probability that he would raise the flop or the turn with it making TP slightly more likely for him. Idk i think once you checked I would def call, but I like a shove way better

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well ok, i dont think he is calling a river shove with 1 pair given that it is 4 to the flop and it was protected by the fish. when i lead turn, his handrange becomes {1 pair and 2pair (a7) bluffcatchers, flushes}. on river, i figure he might call with A7, fold all other 1 pair hands and call all his flushes. there are way more combos of flushes than A7 right?

i mean does op_dinner really call this river with AK here?

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I like. Seems like you're only ahead A7 unless he's stupid.

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and he should raise A3/33/QQ/AA on flop.

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this seems like a perfect flop to check-raise massive on. your first to act, there is a preflop raise who is facing 3 opponents on an A high flush draw flop.

check-raise big will stink of semi bluff. even if he folds, meh, not bad for meta.

your never getting 3 streets of value here so lead flop sucks for that reason as well imo.

if anything check-call flop crai turn if flush misses.

given you've lead flop, i'd check the turn. your never betting the river (unless A or Q) and so he'll know you dont have the flush and so could bluff you off a stronger hand (as he appears to have done here). instead i prefer check-call or crai turn.

regardless though, flop lead seems bizarre imo, seems way to strong. who leads into a AcQx3c board first to act in a 4 way pot with a pfr with a [censored] hand. your defining your hand as strong right from the off, which isnt wise imo.

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[ QUOTE ]
and he should raise A3/33/QQ/AA on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont think he should raise the flop with A3.

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why not, most every tag 3bets AQ/QQ/AA.

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Calling the flop lead with A7 seems pretty damn thin to me i would tend to disregard that as part of his range for the most part i think given his preflop stats, position and number of players ur betting into. Maybe in a vacuum this is a c/f, but like ship said if your ever bluff shoving this river to fold out AK AJ type hands then shoving it here seems good too

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[ QUOTE ]
why not, most every tag 3bets AQ/QQ/AA.

[/ QUOTE ]


Dont know about history between you and villain obv.
Anyway if I was villain in this hand I would consider AQ a huge part of your range. If he raises the flop he is not getting the money in good vs. your range. Much better to wait and see what happens on the turn from his perspective.

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but then again its hard to think of hands that would have got here as a bluff

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i like shoving river a lot better than check/fold

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you would shove the river with everything that beats AK

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He prob did have AK bc a lot of people don't know how to value bet properly. Of course, he doesnt realize that he is bluffing when he bets. Because of this I think you have to call the river.

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This is a pretty interesting spot, here's how I see it:

If he has a flush it pretty much has to be the nut flush b/c in his eyes you could have the Qc so I don't see him giving a chance @ another club if he doesn't have the K high flush once the turn hits. If he flopped a set I think he would raise the flop b/c it's multiway and there is a FD and gutshots which could hurt him. I could also see him getting to the river w/ AxKc, but I'm not sure why he would bet the river w/ that hand. From what I remember playing vs Opdinnerout he was pretty nitty postflop, but I haven't played @ FT in 5 months and that's when he was playing 2/4. I think he's repping exactly the nut flush. As others have said I would shove here for value here, but now that we've checked I think it's close. In the heat of the moment I think I would call, but after thinking about it it's probably a good fold IMO.

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I would have shoved so that I don't have to make this fold.

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Eh just shove it yourself. Were you calling a turn shove btw?

But if you check the riv it should be to fold, he is not betting AK here

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[ QUOTE ]
Eh just shove it yourself. Were you calling a turn shove btw?

But if you check the riv it should be to fold, he is not betting AK here

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

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if you're betting the turn you have to shove this river, not close

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[ QUOTE ]
if you're betting the turn you have to shove this river, not close

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why? i think i can get 1 street of value from turn/river from a non flush hand and he has a wider calling range on turn for sure.

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hm sorry i misread the action thought you were the pfr, have to consider this some more.. donking isnt really a part of my game so this is weird to think about

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why lead the flop instead of c/r?

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I actually think this is really good. I just can't see any/(enough) hands in his range after this line that you beat that would either call a shove or shove after your check. Do you c/f 33 here too though?