4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

4/8 Live, Hollywood Park.

This is my first hand, I'm coming in in the big blind.

Hero is in the BB with J7o

4 limpers, SB completes, hero checks.

(6 SB)

FLOP: J 7 4 r

SB checks, Hero bets, 3 callers, 2 folds.

(10 SB)

TURN: 4

Hero bets, Fat older lady RAISES, all fold to hero who???


AB

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

Calls down.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

i calldown only because she's fat and old making her very unhappy with life and thus more apt to raise the turn often enough with a hand worse than ours. if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
i calldown only because she's fat and old making her very unhappy with life and thus more apt to raise the turn often enough with a hand worse than ours. if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fat old ladies don't strike me as the type who get out of line very often. Old ladies are the passive sort who sometimes limp preflop and check and call down with an overpair as I bet TPTK.

A fat middle-aged woman is more likely to raise the turn with a worse hand than a fat old woman in my experience. I should probably start there before I get into correlations between race and playing style.

That being said, I call down.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

Well, I guess she was 50ish.

Bleh, I called down, donkey that I am, and she of course had 64o.

The thing is, I'm thinking this is a leak of mine - I pretty much *knew* she had a 4 - are my 4 outs really enough to call? And if I call here, do I really check/call this river UI?

I'm really starting to think I should avoid calling down these games with less than a set.


AB

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

i share this leak, and i cant tell you how much money i MAKE in these games because of it.
imho you have to call down the first time, then next time you can be sure. I've been suprised by people's play so many times i think a call down is justified, esp since you do have some outs.

brian

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

This is a live game, just call down.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

I agree that callng down is best here.

Had a sim hadn the other day with AQo where I floppped 2 pair with a 5 out as well on the board, I lead out SB calls as well as several others, SB leads into me when another 5 hits on the turn nad I just call down. He of course had A5o and won but we are good here enough with live players to justify calls most of the time unless it is an awfully solid read of someone or have played with. At least we usually have outs with our 2 pair hands cause there is usually enough money in the pot to continue to try and boat up.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a live game, just call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow - okay - I did indeed call down, but I have been concerned that I'm leaking here.

Thanks Joe, and the rest of you, for your comments.

AB

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

I call down here against an unknown, even a fat old female unknown, and I feel dirty about it but it can't be helped. If I had any sort of read I could find a fold. I can think of some players I play with on a regular basis I could fold this to.

NH, sorry she has a four.

Interesting side question, assuming you don't raise AJo pf in this spot, how do you play just TPTK? Are we still calling down or is that an easier turn fold? I would lean towards folding.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, yeah. what do you put her on? if she has a 4(most likely holding) she'll payoff with her boat. most live players have a 4 here a majority of the time. if we weren't getting overlay from the pot to calldown we could probably fold. given that there is additional money to win, we calldown for the occasional time she gets goofy.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I'm thinking this is a leak of mine - I pretty much *knew* she had a 4 - are my 4 outs really enough to call? And if I call here, do I really check/call this river UI?

I'm really starting to think I should avoid calling down these games with less than a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to call down a bit more early in a session and save my big laydowns for when I have seen players show down enough hands so that I feel like I have a solid read.

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit, so I might have checked the flop or I might have checked the turn.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to call down a bit more early in a session and save my big laydowns for when I have seen players show down enough hands so that I feel like I have a solid read.

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit, so I might have checked the flop or I might have checked the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good metagame strategy for someone who plays live. I don't see why checking in this hand helps you get to showdown (except you miss value) but good overall idea.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this general strategy. not checking this flop or turn, but this particular point in quotes.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, yeah. what do you put her on? if she has a 4(most likely holding) she'll payoff with her boat. most live players have a 4 here a majority of the time. if we weren't getting overlay from the pot to calldown we could probably fold. given that there is additional money to win, we calldown for the occasional time she gets goofy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I think I leveled you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a live game, just call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, when I said calls down, it's calls, but second option is 3bet, not fold. Against a live player it just makes life a lot easier to just call down. I think betting the river is pretty hawt because she'll never check behind with a four, she might check a Jack, and she probably won't raise most fours.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this general strategy. not checking this flop or turn, but this particular point in quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I would have checked the flop or turn, but I would have at least thought about it. I wouldn't check both.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

he usllaly have 89 off suit.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, yeah. what do you put her on? if she has a 4(most likely holding) she'll payoff with her boat. most live players have a 4 here a majority of the time. if we weren't getting overlay from the pot to calldown we could probably fold. given that there is additional money to win, we calldown for the occasional time she gets goofy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I think I leveled you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

doh! nh.

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a live game, just call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be an obvious question but whats the relevance of this? Is it that online the odds of someone multitabling and just raising a made hand are way more likely?

Re: 4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live
 

Just call. and CC every river UI.