When are games too good?
 

I read an essay Mr. Malmuth wrote a while back about games that are too LP. When almost everyone sees the flop and 3 or more on average showdown you end up playing against too many hands drawing against you. Even if you are good right now the 4 or 5 other who are going to call down have a good chance to beat you as a group.

I play at a table like this the other night. I would try to isolate or reduce the playing field, but would still get many callers. It was crazy. Big pairs didn't have much value. Sets would get beat by runner runner flushes or straights. I usually welcome this type of play, but it is like there are 6 people on one team and you are the only one on the other.

I find that my favorite table type is one that has 2 or 3 LP, 1 LAG, and the rest LP preflop/weak tight post flop.

Has anyone had this experience before?

I kept thinking to myself this table is great, it will great when I hit a good hand. Then when I did it would get get beat by the other team. It seemed like the only way I could win was to bluff the 2 relitively tight players at the table when scare cards came. I didn't dare bluff the rest of the table. I might have a different opinion if my big draws would have hit. I think I played well, but didn't have my fair share of luck that night. {shrug}

Re: When are games too good?
 

I think this effect is called schooling, and it means this: If there are 4 fish in the pot chasing you down, the magnitudes of their individual errors are reduced.

Think about the following situation: You're in the BB K9o and 3 people call. You check, there are 4 bets in the pot, and the flop is K52r. You bet out, and nobody has odds to call you because they are holding, respectively, A5, 2Qs, and 46s. However, the first guy does call with his 46s gutshot. Now there are 6 bets in the pot. The next guy calls with A5, and finally the Q2 comes along as well.

The second two callers mistakes were made smaller by the error made by the first player (calling with his gutter).

What's important to see here is that you will still make a lot of money from this table in the long run. However I think that typically once you get past 2 or 3 awful players at a table you'll see diminishing returns as other such fish sit down.

Re: When are games too good?
 

Short run it can hurt you but for me, yum yum. I'll take that table any day.

Re: When are games too good?
 

The variance is huge in this game and it either makes me very happy quickly or tilts me. I'm trying to take the line of getting up early and if I cant get up and play with OPM then its probably better to either go in an uber tight shell or bail.

There's generally a couple of linchpins that even the fish see as fish, as fish they'll widen to outplay the "bigger" fish post-flop (a common leak at these tables). The problem is that they either bust and leave or gasp rack up and leave and the game can die.

If they are known to sit there to they see felt, then giddyup, re-buy and settle in.

Re: When are games too good?
 

Dude, that game is the best! Variance is high but it's easily the most profitable kind of table unless there's some kind of weird table where people aren't too loose passive but are making a bunch of easily exploitable mistakes.

Re: When are games too good?
 

half weak/tight half loose passive is better imo.

Re: When are games too good?
 

*sigh*

Re: When are games too good?
 

Some of my biggest pots recently have been hands like QQ with like 5 people chasing me all the way down and them all whiffing.

OP-Don't know where you play but a majority of the tables I play live at are LP types. There might be one sort of laggy player but a majority of the tables are LP players that I want chasing down marginal hands. Also this is merely one session that you are speaking of here.

Embrace the LP

Re: When are games too good?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I play at a table like this the other night. I would try to isolate or reduce the playing field, but would still get many callers.

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If making a raise for the purpose of isolating or thinning the field won't actually accomplish that purpose, then quit making raises for that purpose (although you'll probably want to be increasing your value raises at such a table).

Also, some players make mistakes at this sort of table by continuing on in large pots when they are obviously drawing dead on the turn or beat on the river because they feel tied to strong hands preflop or on the flop.

Re: When are games too good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I played well, but didn't have my fair share of luck that night. {shrug}

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the whole story. On this type of table, you have to make the hand that is going to win at showdown. But, when you do, you get to stack chips while the next three hands are played.

The day you sit on one of these tables, and run good, you will be wondering how the hell you are going to stack those 60 BBs of other peoples money. (I usually go with a pyramid, it is fairly stable, and it doesn't take that much space. Well, sometimes it does, but that isn't your problem [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).)