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-   -   3/6 limit third nut flush (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=555235)

Seb86 11-26-2007 11:36 PM

3/6 limit third nut flush
 
Hi, I am fairly new to omaha8 and there are spot where I really dont know what I am doing.

This hand show 2 spots where I am not sure what to
do, at first on the flop, do I have value when I bet top pair no draw ?

And on the river what am I suppose to do with my 3rd nuts ? any value in raising ?

Sorry if the hand is standard.
PokerStars 3/6 Omaha/8 (7 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Js Kc Ac Qd (High: flush, ace high).
MP1 has 2h 7h Ad 6d (Low: 7, 4, 3, 2, A | High: three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Ks Td Jc Qc (High: flush, queen high).
Outcome: UTG wins 8.58 BB. MP1 wins 8.58 BB. </font>

Edit :

Well let me had this one while I am at it, it may seems like a bad beat post but really its not, is my hand foldable on the river in hand #2 ? is my hand good enough to limp with pre flop ? Do I have value betting the flop ?


PokerStars 3/6 Omaha/8 (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (7.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls, BB folds.

River: (10.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ad 5h 6c 4d (High: flush, ace high).
CO has Qs 9d Tc 7c (High: full house, sevens full of tens).
Outcome: CO wins 12.16 BB. </font>

Buzz 11-27-2007 03:15 AM

Re: 3/6 limit third nut flush
 
Hi Seb - I think your starting hand is marginally playable. I'd want to see the flop with it as cheaply as possible from the Button, which you do. Fine.

Then you miss a playable fit with the flop. Your opponents check and you bet. So long as you know you do not have a playable fit and realize you are bluffing (or making an extremely thin bet if that makes you feel better) fine. You're highly unlikely to take this pot with your bet. People play low hands in the game and some of your opponents are highly likely to call your bet. That's just the way it is.

Anyhow you bet and all four of the checkers call, more or less as expected. And they all probably have better fits with the flop than you. Now you might feel foolish about the bet. However, the bet was all right, but only because you'll be playing more hands and next time you do this, hopefully you'll have an actual flop fit. And they don't know, at this point that you have junk. (A pair of queens and a 3rd nut back-door flush draw for half the pot is junk).

Anyhow, the turn makes low and a low straight. MP1 bets after two checks. Looks a lot like MP1 has a low or possibly a straight. (I have not read the results. I don't plan to read the results.)

Then the river makes your back-door 3rd nut club flush but UTG suddenly comes alive and bets. Hard to say why UTG is betting. There are 18690 ways UTG can have the club flush and you can only beat 9650 of them, roughly half. Since UTH is betting, I'd guess he probably has the ace flush or king flush, so you're probably even less than a fifty fifty favorite to have your club flush beat UTG's club flush. Somewhat balancing this is the possibility UTG could be betting the nut low or doing something purely stupid.

Assuming MP1 has a low, if UTG randomly has the club flush, you'll win high about half the time and lose high about half the time. When you win high, for every six bucks you put in the pot on the river, you'll get your own chips back, plus winning 3 bucks. When you lose high, for every six bucks you put in the pot on the river, you'll lose six bucks.

So if UTG randomly has the club flush, and it surely looks even better than that for UTG, you figure to win $3 half the time for every bet and raise on the river while losing $6 half the time for every bet and raise on the river.

You have to call the $6 bet on the river because half the time you'll win half of all the money in the pot. But you sure don't have to raise on the river!

Buzz

Seb86 11-27-2007 11:44 AM

Re: 3/6 limit third nut flush
 
Wow, thank you very much for taking the time to make such an elaborate answer, that definatelly has been very helpfull [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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