How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

I dont know if this is a really really stupid question, but Im having trouble with it. I just bought a lob wedge, and LOVE it, I can actually chip with the damn thing. With my pitching wedge I always got nervous that I was going to hit teh ball way to far "swinging through the ball" like everyone tells me, but I got passed w/ my lob wedge for some reason, and I can swing as hard as I can and the thing will only go 60 yards, which for some reason helps me out in figuring out chipping/pitching. Anyways, Im trying to figure out yardages in regards to what club Im using, and how far around my swing comes. Do you guys write this stuff down or what?

ie- half swing- lob wedge- 30 yards
half swing- choke down - lob wedge - 20 yards
pitching wedge- full swing - 130
etc


or does this just come naturally with play?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

Just comes naturally with play.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just comes naturally with play.

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would it be counter productive to take a notebook and paper to the driving range and try to figure how much swing etc, makes the ball go X yards?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

guids,

Bitcho is right. There's no point writing it down because it's a touch/feel thing, PARTICULARLY with less than full shots. When I'm practicing/playing a lot I just know the swing I need to hit an e.g. 70 yard L-wedge shot (roughly 70% of its full distance).

It's worth mentioning that these half wedges are the absolute devil to most high handicappers. They can't figure out how much to take off, hit it fat, thin, etc., and most don't invest the time or effort to get better.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
guids,

Bitcho is right. There's no point writing it down because it's a touch/feel thing, PARTICULARLY with less than full shots. When I'm practicing/playing a lot I just know the swing I need to hit an e.g. 70 yard L-wedge shot (roughly 70% of its full distance).

It's worth mentioning that these half wedges are the absolute devil to most high handicappers. They can't figure out how much to take off, hit it fat, thin, etc., and most don't invest the time or effort to get better.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, this is like saying PokerTracker isn't useful because you can just remember important hands in your head.

There's nothing at all wrong with being somewhat scientific about the short game and writing down your yardages. I'm a firm believer in Pelz's system, and he openly encourages it (since he teaches you to have 3 wedges each with 4 distances that you consistently hit them...so you have to remember 12! yardages)...he suggests taping them to the underside of the shaft so you won't see them at address, but can readily see them for reference.

Of course, in time, you'll just remember them...and, also, going about the short game THIS way, lets you learn 'feel' so much faster because 'feel' is the hardest thing to learn...so why not help yourself?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
guids,

Bitcho is right. There's no point writing it down because it's a touch/feel thing, PARTICULARLY with less than full shots. When I'm practicing/playing a lot I just know the swing I need to hit an e.g. 70 yard L-wedge shot (roughly 70% of its full distance).

It's worth mentioning that these half wedges are the absolute devil to most high handicappers. They can't figure out how much to take off, hit it fat, thin, etc., and most don't invest the time or effort to get better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there somewhere I can look to see how far I should probably be hitting my clubs? I think I was only hitting my lob wedge (60*) about 60 to 70 at most, this was at the range, down hill about 5 feet. I have a lob, and a pitching wedge, my pitching wedge I can full swing about 125ish, do I need something for in between, or should I work out how much swing is needed for the P/L firsT?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guids,

Bitcho is right. There's no point writing it down because it's a touch/feel thing, PARTICULARLY with less than full shots. When I'm practicing/playing a lot I just know the swing I need to hit an e.g. 70 yard L-wedge shot (roughly 70% of its full distance).

It's worth mentioning that these half wedges are the absolute devil to most high handicappers. They can't figure out how much to take off, hit it fat, thin, etc., and most don't invest the time or effort to get better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there somewhere I can look to see how far I should probably be hitting my clubs? I think I was only hitting my lob wedge (60*) about 60 to 70 at most, this was at the range, down hill about 5 feet. I have a lob, and a pitching wedge, my pitching wedge I can full swing about 125ish, do I need something for in between, or should I work out how much swing is needed for the P/L firsT?

[/ QUOTE ]

This entirely depends on whether you NEED something for that distance. Personally, I carry 4 wedges. As a very long hitter, I find it easier to score from <150 with multiple wedges.

For ex)
I have a 48 PW, a 51 Gap wedge, a 56 SW and a 60LW (considering an XW at some point, we'll see). Full swings are 150, 125, 110, and 100, but with the variety of non-full swings, I can be anywhere inside of 150 and have lots of shot options...and that's what's really important: OPTIONS.

So, if you can play fine without filling the gap, then you don't necessarily 'need' to fill it...but I strongly suggest you have 3 wedges minimum.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

black knight,

Your comparison to poker tracker is ridiculous. Let's just say I wasn't shocked to see you come up with something like that, lol.

And what does Pelz suggest for when you are outside of those 12! yardages?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guids,

Bitcho is right. There's no point writing it down because it's a touch/feel thing, PARTICULARLY with less than full shots. When I'm practicing/playing a lot I just know the swing I need to hit an e.g. 70 yard L-wedge shot (roughly 70% of its full distance).

It's worth mentioning that these half wedges are the absolute devil to most high handicappers. They can't figure out how much to take off, hit it fat, thin, etc., and most don't invest the time or effort to get better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there somewhere I can look to see how far I should probably be hitting my clubs? I think I was only hitting my lob wedge (60*) about 60 to 70 at most, this was at the range, down hill about 5 feet. I have a lob, and a pitching wedge, my pitching wedge I can full swing about 125ish, do I need something for in between, or should I work out how much swing is needed for the P/L firsT?

[/ QUOTE ]

This distance calculator might interest you.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

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The one thing he posts about that he's stoked on and you suggest a change? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
black knight,

Your comparison to poker tracker is ridiculous. Let's just say I wasn't shocked to see you come up with something like that, lol.

And what does Pelz suggest for when you are outside of those 12! yardages?

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Considering that they're 3-4 yds apart each, there's nothing you'd need to do. And if you're under the ranges, you're chipping anyway.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

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What would you suggest?


I dont really chip with my lob wedge, I just bought it yesterday, I just went to the range, and practiced in my backyard to get a feel for it and it helped me to get a feel for the short game a little better. it taught me how to get the ball in the air.

it helped me enough, that I could set up a bucket 20 feet away, and after figuring out how far back to take the club, I could get it in th bucket about 50% of the time. Would Id like to be able to do, is be able to basically do that from 10 feet, up to 300 ft (maybe not directly in the bucket, but close obv).

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

You're on the right path doing what you're doing...eventually, learn to do that with your other clubs too, and you'll be well along to having a killer short game.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
black knight,

Your comparison to poker tracker is ridiculous. Let's just say I wasn't shocked to see you come up with something like that, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, WTF? Pokertracker is a matter of calculating percentages and making the best play. Half wedges involve a lot of factors - skill, nerves, wind, green conditions, etc. This isn't even close to a decent comparison.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

just make sure that when you have lots of green to work with to not chip with the lob wedge

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short Game guru Stan Utley would disagree with this. As with everything golf related, there are rarely absolute rights and wrongs. Many tour players use the L wedge almost exclusively, while others use different clubs for different trajectories. OP isn't a tour player, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong for using the L wedge for most greenside shots.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

I would say you are complicating things a good bit in trying to remember "everything". When you play, there are going to be distance that come up over and over - and some that won't unless if you're hitting the ball all over the course. I.e. - it would be rare for me to have a 40-55 yard shot on the course. The sweet spot is probably something like 80-130 yards, so I'm just going to concentrate on that range. When I lay up, I would try to be about 80 yards out from the green - and that would be like a smooth sand wedge.

At the range just hit 20 balls 60 yards, then 20 80 yards, etc to calibrate your swing. It should then become just a feel thing like shooting a basketball.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short Game guru Stan Utley would disagree with this. As with everything golf related, there are rarely absolute rights and wrongs. Many tour players use the L wedge almost exclusively, while others use different clubs for different trajectories. OP isn't a tour player, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong for using the L wedge for most greenside shots.

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I don't think anything you wrote contradicted my post. That being said, I'd be much more inclined to support a tour player's decision to chip with a lob wedge than a non-tour player. For most players it simply makes your margin for error in ball striking prohibitively small.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short Game guru Stan Utley would disagree with this. As with everything golf related, there are rarely absolute rights and wrongs. Many tour players use the L wedge almost exclusively, while others use different clubs for different trajectories. OP isn't a tour player, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong for using the L wedge for most greenside shots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarify "many"? Even Mickelson has been getting away from the L wedge a lot.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of an aside from the question, but you're likely doing yourself a disservice by chipping with a lob wedge.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to say that evan was right about this, Ive been spending about 30 minutes to an hour a day at the little chip and put at the driving range, and its way easier to control the ball from 10 feet off the green with the P Wedge.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

I use one 56 degree wedge for everything 100 and in. Through practice I've been able to learn various different types of shots.

I find that the easiest way to think about distance with a wedge is to think in terms of the old clock analogy. A 6 O'clock backswing goes ____ yards, a 9 ___ yards, 11 ____ yards and so on.

You just need to practice hitting various shots with these clubs until you are comfortable with their distances AND how the ball reacts when it hits the ground, (stops, hits and rolls 10 yards, hits and rolls 5 yards etc).

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

On the Lob wedge debate:

I recall L wedges getting popular a while ago because of how seemingly effortless it was to get the ball airborne. It was as if every one was always facing 15 yard shots from fluffy rough over a sandtrap and a tight pin location.

I think this goes hand-in-hand with the average golfers inability to get the ball in the air with a regular P/S wedge. The same problem that leads to all of the decelerating chip shots, scooping and thin "worm burning" skulls.

It's like hitting out of the sand near the green, everyone wants to take a slow short swing and lift the ball out of the bunker all dainty like without touching the sand.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

I also think some people overuse lob-type wedges because lobbing the ball way up in the air a la Phil is a lot sexier than a bump-and-run. That's a retarded line of thinking of course, but I honestly believe some people think that way.

I have a friend who is a decent stick who once used a 60 degree wedge or some such when he was on the fringe, not twelve feet from the hole and at most a foot off the green, with nothing to carry and a pretty flat shot. He had us pull the flag for him, and of course he proceeded to duff the chip about halfway to the hole. He wasn't my partner, if he was I would have questioned the play right there, but instead my teammate and I had a good chuckle about it when we were out of his earshot.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also think some people overuse lob-type wedges because lobbing the ball way up in the air a la Phil is a lot sexier than a bump-and-run. That's a retarded line of thinking of course, but I honestly believe some people think that way.

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+1

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

I am not saying you should be hitting high shots with the lob wedge for simple chips and pitches. I will say that learning to hit low/medium/high shots around the greens with multiple clubs will improve your overall touch and feel. As long as you are good enough to make crisp contact most of the time, your margin of error with an L wedge is greater than with a 9 iron: i.e. if you take too big a swing with both, the 9 iron will go farther past than the L wedge. (assuming crisp contact) Most people who have trouble with the higher lofted wedges suffer from poor technique, and the slightly bigger L wedge swing can magnify that.

My suggestion would be to practice hitting different shots with different clubs, and finding out what seems most consistent for YOU.

FWIW I use the 60 degree for 75-80% of shots around the green, but most of the amateurs I play with are surprised at how low the ball goes.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

Or a 9 or an 8 iron.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

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This distance calculator might interest you.

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That thing was freakishly right on for me.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

Didn't work AT ALL for me.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

Wow, I have so much I want to say on this subject I don't know where to start.

OP, what's your handicap? And what kind of conditions do you play on? Fast or slow greens? Deep rough around greens or chipping/collection areas?

For what it's worth, I use my 56* wedge for 90% of my shots for inside 100 yards and my PW for the other 10%. I think having one club that you like and know how to use (which sounds like what you have now) is the way to go if you have any talent at all. Unless I'm playing a course with really slow greens, I rarely have a shot around the green where I can chip and run with a 6 or 7iron. I think a lot of older professionals teach getting the ball on the green as soon as possible and letting it roll the rest of the way are wrong. Because they don't consider how much the playing conditions have changed in the last twenty years. Greens are so much smoother and faster, and fringes are so much smoother and tighter, that you have to have a lofted club with some bounce on it that gets the ball it the air and stops it fairly quickly.

I think writing down how far you hit each type of shot is great. 1/2 swing=40yards, 3/4=50yards, etc. I think every pro can tell you an exact number if you ask them: In benign conditions, how far do you hit your lob wedge if you take it back to "9 o'clock" and swing full? Obviously, you'll be between yardages sometimes and have to adjust somehow, but when you get that "perfect" yardage you'll have the confidence to stiff it.

With regards to people saying you have less margin of error with a lob wedge I disagree somewhat. If you're good enough to make consistent contact with a higher lofted club you should actually have more margin of error. If you hit a full lob wedge 60 yards and hit a "3/4" one 45 yards, you can swing anywhere in between and be within 15 yards. If you have a 100 foot chip and have 90 feet of green to work with, there's nothing wrong with flying it halfway there and letting it roll from there. When I hit this shot with a 7iron I'm all over the place because you have to be so precise with how fast the club moves through the ball. If you just barely hit the ball harder than it goes way past. With a wedge, you can make a bigger, more relaxed swing and not worry because the ball basically lands and rolls the same everytime.

If you need to write down yardages for different types of shots, then do it. And if you like using your lob wedge and are fairly good at it, then use it for the majority of your shots. Don't try and complicate things by trying to use different clubs all the time. Having one club that you're confident with and that you know will perform well is what you need.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

The reason people suggest that there is less margin for error with the lob wedge is because we're talking about players who CAN'T make consistent and solid contact.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The reason people suggest that there is less margin for error with the lob wedge is because we're talking about players who CAN'T make consistent and solid contact.

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I realize this and that's why I wanted to know quids' handicap and why I said if one can make consistent contact to go with higher lofted shots around the greens.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason people suggest that there is less margin for error with the lob wedge is because we're talking about players who CAN'T make consistent and solid contact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize this and that's why I wanted to know quids' handicap and why I said if one can make consistent contact to go with higher lofted shots around the greens.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know what my handicap is, its up there though. I can make consistent contact w/ my irons, in fact Im pretty damn good with them. I find the pitching wedge much more controllable though, well maybe not controlable, but its a lot less work to get the ball to the hole



edit: what I will probably end up doing, is adjusting between my lob and my pitching wedge based on the angle of where Im comming in at the pin. IE, if the pin is right at the front of the green, and Im coming straight at it, Im probabyl going to use my lob wedge so I can kill the ball when it lands, and I wont have to wrry about it rolling all the way across the green, if the pin is towards the back, then Ill use the PW, so I can "putt" it to the hole. Does this sound ok?

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

guids,

You say you'd use a PW for longer distances. Not sure if you do this or not, but seriously consider using a 7 or 8-iron or even something lower than that if you aren't already. More margin for error and it is a more easily repeatable stroke. My current club of choice is the 8-iron, but growing up I used a 5-iron or 7-iron.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also think some people overuse lob-type wedges because lobbing the ball way up in the air a la Phil is a lot sexier than a bump-and-run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of tend toward the opposite thinking. I think the bump and run shots are more sexy in a classier way so I end up trying to bounce in pitch shots close from anywhere within 80 yards of the green instead of hitting a lofted wedge.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
guids,

You say you'd use a PW for longer distances. Not sure if you do this or not, but seriously consider using a 7 or 8-iron or even something lower than that if you aren't already. More margin for error and it is a more easily repeatable stroke. My current club of choice is the 8-iron, but growing up I used a 5-iron or 7-iron.

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Ill give this a try next week. honestly enough, I really suprised myself at how good I got at chipping so quickly, I also have spent about 20 hours in the last 5 days practicing, and my cousin taught me a lot when I was hanging out w/ him. He put up a sheet of ply wood about 3 feet behind me, and put a bucket about 30 feet on the other side of the yard and basically said, get the ball in the bucket but dont touch the board, I got the hang of it quick.


I just need something like that for my driver and woods.

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
He put up a sheet of ply wood about 3 feet behind me, and put a bucket about 30 feet on the other side of the yard and basically said, get the ball in the bucket but dont touch the board, I got the hang of it quick.


I just need something like that for my driver and woods.

[/ QUOTE ]


Take a club and lay it on the ground directly behind the ball, pointing at your target.
Now take the sheet of plywood, and place it parallel to the club, 6" outside the line (standing vertically). Remove the club. Now hit the ball in the fairway.
You might want to wear safety goggle till you get the hang of it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

You can wear your distances on your wrist like quarterbacks with their plays.

http://www.chieftain.com/archive/200...PENNINGTON.jpg

Re: How do you remember everything? (swing questions)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason people suggest that there is less margin for error with the lob wedge is because we're talking about players who CAN'T make consistent and solid contact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize this and that's why I wanted to know quids' handicap and why I said if one can make consistent contact to go with higher lofted shots around the greens.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know what my handicap is, its up there though. I can make consistent contact w/ my irons, in fact Im pretty damn good with them. I find the pitching wedge much more controllable though, well maybe not controlable, but its a lot less work to get the ball to the hole



edit: what I will probably end up doing, is adjusting between my lob and my pitching wedge based on the angle of where Im comming in at the pin. IE, if the pin is right at the front of the green, and Im coming straight at it, Im probabyl going to use my lob wedge so I can kill the ball when it lands, and I wont have to wrry about it rolling all the way across the green, if the pin is towards the back, then Ill use the PW, so I can "putt" it to the hole. Does this sound ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this sounds perfect.