Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

100-200 live game. Not a great lineup, save for one superLAG who's been playing tight preflop. He has a short stack and is across the table from me. One other guy is mediocre and 2 seats to my left so I'm thinking about picking up soon. 10-handed. Tough player limps UTG+1. Tight, readable player limps UTG+2. I limp in EMP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and everybody but one of the LP players comes along. Fianchetto is in the BB and checks.

8 to the flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet. Mediocre guy and superLAG behind me call and Fianchetto calls.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Fianchetto bets out and I fold. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I would probably pop it up preflop here. How many folded to his bet? If everybody folded up to you I like a raise/fold line and a check behind on the river.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

haak,

I like it.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

KIS,

I read it as, fian bets into him, action is to haak w/ two flop callers behind him.

Didn't notice pre-flop. Yeah, I probably would have raised pre-flop too, but don't hate the limp.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I agree el D. . .

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I usually raise here, but decided to limp behind since the UTG+1 limper could have a monster and he plays very well postflop.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

Both of the other players were still yet to act behind me on the turn.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

[ QUOTE ]
KIS,

I read it as, fian bets into him, action is to haak w/ two flop callers behind him.

Didn't notice pre-flop. Yeah, I probably would have raised pre-flop too, but don't hate the limp.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I misread the action. Good fold.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I think I'm the only one who doesn't like it.

Calling is what I'd do, though maybe I'd raise.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

ja, this is like old-school yet still relevant sklansky. I know Fianchetto plays good, but still. . . haakee bet the flop, which had 2 clubs, which could be a limping hand behind two limpers. F. may assume haakee doesn't have an ace, and rightly so since it is a rare limp for him, but still it's not a good spot to try to represent a 7 with the flush coming and all, so i think he has a flush or really has the 7 and haakee is drawing virtually dead. . .

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I usually raise it preflop there too.

I was astonished when everyone folded to my turn bet. Respek! But you made the right play, I turned trip 7's there, guess I shoulda gone for the checkraise.

The game got real good after you left. Oh yeah, and I don't even want to post about the $2000 gift I gave you yesterday. You're welcome!

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

Um, 9 people to a flop and u think it's a bad lineup?

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

Agreed. Fianchetto has a hand when he leads out into all these folks. Maybe he has some sort of double-draw type hand like a big club and a pair, but much more than likely the OP is drawing way dead.

TSP

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

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Um, 9 people to a flop and u think it's a bad lineup?

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These west coast boys have low standards for what constitutes a bad game.

That or they realize how awesome their games are out there and lie to try to keep us midwestern-Scandi-background-studs from going out there to play and make the games tough.


If I were haakee I would have raised preflop, and then probably not folded postflop and used the "it's a big pot" crutch as an excuse to call down (though who knows how this hand plays out postflop with a preflop raise). As it is, the pot is small and it's quite likely Fianchetto has a flush or trips so it's IMO a def fold.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I were haakee I would have raised preflop, and then probably not folded postflop and used the "it's a big pot" crutch as an excuse to call down (though who knows how this hand plays out postflop with a preflop raise). As it is, the pot is small and it's quite likely Fianchetto has a flush or trips so it's IMO a def fold.

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Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

Sucker,

You seem to have a different perspective on the turn action than everyone else. Please elaborate on your choice to call or raise as opposed to fold when Fian bets into you on the turn here.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

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I think I'm the only one who doesn't like it.

Calling is what I'd do, though maybe I'd raise.

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i think the EDIT: fold is standard and make folds like this when the conditions are as above. but just b/c i think it, doesn't make it good.

only way to get better is to learn by studying and looking at this hand is interesting.

so why would you call instead of folding? how close do you think calling is to folding? where does raising fit on the scale of the 3 options?

your thoughts would be appreciated.

Barron

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I'm in the raise PF and fold turn camp.

When I get that sick feeling in my stomach on the turn when I'm about to call, I remind myself that this instinct is like 95% accurate that I'm beat and fold. This just doesn't seem close.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

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I think I'm the only one who doesn't like it.

Calling is what I'd do, though maybe I'd raise.

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wow, come on dude, look at the action. he has a 7.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

tough spot. the pot has lots of bets there and most times you will lose but it is far from an auto matic fold. close call but i call and take a card off and see what happens.
lots of problems with this post. as most of the posters know haakee and are well aware that he rarely will buy the rounds of drinks. so diablo has to kiss his buttt so he may get a round next time. so we must throw out his voice. the sucker is probably so pissed from haakee never buying that he cant think straight although i agree with him on this one.
fianchetto knows how tight haakee is and would love to rob him and buy the drinks with the money.
i am totally impartial as when we go out i just make diablo pay for everything and that solves all the issues. next time fianchetto comes and gets drunk and pays

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

I would have raised preflop, this makes a fold on the turn even more correct because the better is betting into a preflop raiser also 2 opponents are yet to act, of course if you had raised there may be only one person behind you or you might have even bought the button, if you did get the button a call would be in order if no one raises in front of you, w/ only one person yet to act a fold still seens OK to me.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

as long as your preflop raise didnt make the pot alot bigger by getting a few out. otherwise it doesnt make him less likely to have you beat he figures to be betting a weaker hand as the pot is bigger. overall i guess you need to decide if he would be leading out here and can have say a hand like ace with a club. if he could your fold is a disaster.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

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tough spot. the pot has lots of bets there and most times you will lose but it is far from an auto matic fold. close call but i call and take a card off and see what happens.
lots of problems with this post. as most of the posters know haakee and are well aware that he rarely will buy the rounds of drinks. so diablo has to kiss his buttt so he may get a round next time. so we must throw out his voice. the sucker is probably so pissed from haakee never buying that he cant think straight although i agree with him on this one.
fianchetto knows how tight haakee is and would love to rob him and buy the drinks with the money.
i am totally impartial as when we go out i just make diablo pay for everything and that solves all the issues. next time fianchetto comes and gets drunk and pays

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There is always so much hidden meaning in the responses where the parties are known. Thanks for setting it all straight.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

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you need to decide if he would be leading out here and can have say a hand like ace with a club. if he could your fold is a disaster.

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This was my thinking in my earlier post, and I think that F. is very capable of doing just this.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

[ QUOTE ]
tough spot. the pot has lots of bets there and most times you will lose but it is far from an auto matic fold. close call but i call and take a card off and see what happens.
lots of problems with this post. as most of the posters know haakee and are well aware that he rarely will buy the rounds of drinks. so diablo has to kiss his buttt so he may get a round next time. so we must throw out his voice. the sucker is probably so pissed from haakee never buying that he cant think straight although i agree with him on this one.
fianchetto knows how tight haakee is and would love to rob him and buy the drinks with the money.
i am totally impartial as when we go out i just make diablo pay for everything and that solves all the issues. next time fianchetto comes and gets drunk and pays

[/ QUOTE ]

You're on, Ray. I think alcohol sounds like a better use of my fish money anyway rather than sitting in a game with the likes of you, haakee, and the sucker.

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you need to decide if he would be leading out here and can have say a hand like ace with a club. if he could your fold is a disaster.

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This was my thinking in my earlier post, and I think that F. is very capable of doing just this.

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thanks guys.


Barron

Re: Modeling my skirt for Fianchetto
 

The pre-flop overlimp can easily be a fold since a solid player limps UTG and there are still a few to act behind you. It's close, ATo I think a fold is clear.

The turn play is good. You will occasionally throw away the best hand, but definitely not enough to pay for the times you are not best and have to pay more than even just 2BB to find out.

at the time of your turn decision you are getting 7:1, but when you are ahead you don't win as much as you lose when you are behind on average, so you need to be good here considerably more than the immediate 7:1 odds you are getting on the turn. likely, you need to be good here even more than the 3.5:1 you are getting to see a showdown if you pay 1 BB each street.

Further, lots of the times you are good, you will get drawn on the river and pay 2BB to find out.

I don't think it's an easy fold, but I think the fold is good. Particularly with two still to act behind you and one is superlag.