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-   -   Razz-caution or coward? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=547741)

Praxising 11-16-2007 03:15 PM

Razz-caution or coward?
 
Ever since I went broke and had to reload, I think I've gotten awfully wimpy. I used to be too aggro, I think. Not sure if I went too far the other way or am being reasonably cautious. Need to be yelled at by better players, please. I just sat down at this table and never saw these players before.

Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.20 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.60 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.60 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises

River - (8.60 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___

Total pot: (8.60 BB)






Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.10 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

5th Street - (2.05 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

6th Street - (4.05 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (6.05 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___[/b]

Total pot: (6.05 BB)

blumpkin 11-16-2007 03:30 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
you probably went broke from your consistently poor 4th street calls and the compounding effects thereof

BH2O 11-16-2007 03:36 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
Hand #1 was that really a bad call on 4th? Now on 5th when you are drawing to an 8 and he looks to have a made 8 and drawing to a 7 I can understand the fold.

betgo 11-16-2007 04:04 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
Fold hand 1 on 4th. He called your early position raise, so he probably has good cards. The 7 probably didn't pair him, since there is a 7 out and he probably started with better cards than that.

kolotoure 11-16-2007 04:08 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
4th in the 1st hand seems pretty bad to me

Praxising 11-16-2007 04:29 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
[ QUOTE ]
you probably went broke from your consistently poor 4th street calls and the compounding effects thereof

[/ QUOTE ]LOL! I actually went broke from my A23s being followed by 4KK and the compounding effects of tilt, thereafter!

As to all the 4th st commentary - if was playing 5/10 I'd have folded the brick. Or even 1/2, most likely. But at .50/1 on Stars - even not knowing the players - it's about 50/50 they have a brick in the hole. HU I always call unless I know the player. So, I agree with everyone, but not in this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1 was that really a bad call on 4th? Now on 5th when you are drawing to an 8 and he looks to have a made 8 and drawing to a 7 I can understand the fold.

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't fold. I thought my play was bad because I either didn't bet or didn't raise. There was never any chance of me folding at this limit in this spot.

SGspecial 11-16-2007 04:43 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Fold hand 1 on 4th. He called your early position raise, so he probably has good cards. The 7 probably didn't pair him, since there is a 7 out and he probably started with better cards than that.

[/ QUOTE ]
At this limit you're giving the villain far too much credit. If the 7 was an overcard to his starting hand, 90% of the time he would have raised on 3rd to begin with. Also, where's the plug for prax limping with a monster on 3rd st?

ceegee 11-16-2007 04:52 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
Fold 4th on the first hand if you like to be loose. A call on 4th means you are hoping for him to brick 5th, so it's a definite fold on 5th when he catches again unless you have a read that he paired. If you have a read there then the line you took is fine.

Hand 2 is fine, check the river.

jbrennen 11-16-2007 05:13 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
IMO, bet the river in the 2nd hand.

Almost certainly, he did not have a made 7-5 on 6th street. If he had 7-4-3-2 (or better) on 4th street, that's pretty much an automatic bet even against scary two-card boards. (Even if he's reraised, he's not that far behind, and 5s and 6s are very live.)

Maybe he had a made 7-6 on 6th street; checking 7-6-4-3 on 4th street might be reasonable looking at those boards. But if he had that, or a worse hand, you're good unless he rivered the win.

He's almost never going for a check/raise on the river. You check/called 6th street; the chance that you actually bet the river is pretty small.

Bet/call the river after he checks to you. If he does check raise, he's doing it with a smooth 8 or a 7-6 or with total air often enough to call him.

Praxising 11-16-2007 06:29 PM

Re: Razz-caution or coward?
 
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, bet the river in the 2nd hand. ....
Bet/call the river after he checks to you. If he does check raise, he's doing it with a smooth 8 or a 7-6 or with total air often enough to call him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you. And would you raise the river on the first hand?


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