completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

I don't have the a HH on me now but this is how how the hand went.

6 max, 5-10 NL, I have approx 1150 he covers, nationz (I have villain running at 24-12 with an AF of 2 over 600 hands) is UTG he raises to 35, I smooth call with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], everyone else folds. flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He bets 50 into the 85 pot, I raise to 150, he thinks for a sec and calls, now the turn comes 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], he checks, I think for a little and check behind, river is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he checks, I bet 300 into the 385 pot he check raises allin for 700 hundred more to me, I???????

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

i puke and timebank out. Very, very difficult spot.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

I think this is a fold. Your hand is somewhat face-up, and I doubt he'd try to make a sick bluff to try and get you to fold TP. I'm guessing he had a 2(?) and whiffed on a turn CR. Then again I haven't played w/ him in a while so i'm not sure if this is good advice.

By the way, why'd you raise flop? I mean I know you are value-raising... but what do you expect him to call you with - QJ/TT type hands?. I'd rather just let him keep bluffing.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

Tough spot. You played it pretty deceptivley. I think you have to call. It's possible he rivered a 2 outer, but as deceptive as you played it, it kinda looks like you're full of it.

However, if I'm 18/12 and UTG. I think I play AA, or KK the exact same way as he does.

Weird spot, I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

OP, what is your image? How does villian view you?

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

Fold. I don't think nationz makes that many huge bluffs. He'll do little ones here and there, but nothing this big.

AA, KK, QQ, and a turned or rivered boat all make sense with his line.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

easiest fold in life

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

Why are you raising the flop for a freecard? Would you fold the flop to a 3-bet? Seems like raising the flop is pointless unless you're trying to play a big pot.

If you're behind AA/KK is most likely, by far more likely than 2x. I fold.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you raising the flop for a freecard? Would you fold the flop to a 3-bet? Seems like raising the flop is pointless unless you're trying to play a big pot.



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nick is right on the spot. kevein, your line makes no sense to me. If you raise flop, u should be betting turn and river (basically if u think ur good on flop, and the board doesnt change, goto value town). If you're not betting a blank turn then call flop. call turn, call river/ or bet river if checked to.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

I don't see much purpose in raising the flop.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

we don't have many hands together, I play tag, run 19-16, 21-17 depends how I feel that day.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

bet the turn, fold the river

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

I actually put him on 99, 1010, jj when he called the flop, also maybe a FD (but what I'm seeing more lately players are pushing FD's more oop)...alot of times I look at the players fold to c-bet % to determine if he's a station ot not. His fold to c-bet was 51% which to me if he has the indicates he does not give him his hands easy. It also indicates he could be tricky, floats, etc..

Even though he may be a station, I won't stack him with an underpair, the most I'll usually get is half a stack.

As playing the hand I believed I could represent the FD by checking the turn, and then betting 3/4 the pot on river and getting paid by the above mentioned range.

looking at the river check raise, qq or a 2 are most probable. Would he play aa or kk this way oop with a fd out there, when he knows I'm probably checking turn if I miss???

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

very similar to the redargoe c/r hand posted yesterday (I think). i wouldnt raise the flop and i'd fold the river.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

[ QUOTE ]
easiest fold in life

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Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

flop raise seems fine, but I think I would bet the turn

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

i think i saw this hand last nite, dont remember was on a lot of tables. i remember thinking you had something like KK and he had no worse than that. He is uncreative and more passive, folding here is fine.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

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I don't see much purpose in raising the flop.

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pure value, not like hes going to fold 77.

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see much purpose in raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

pure value, not like hes going to fold 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya he probably is

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

Flop bet sucks. Given you raised, and he called, I'm definately not raising again for the rest of the hand

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see much purpose in raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

pure value, not like hes going to fold 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya he probably is

[/ QUOTE ]

then we raise any two obv.....

Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

[ QUOTE ]
very similar to the redargoe c/r hand posted yesterday (I think). i wouldnt raise the flop and i'd fold the river.

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Re: completetly lost on a river check raise by nationz
 

fold vs nationz, he's terrible in that never folds kind of way, not in that always spewing off chips bluff c/ring rivers kind of way.