Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Okay, this is the thread to discuss the short stories submitted for our contest as well as discussion of writing techniques and so on.

Here is the thread with the submissions

Short Stories


The contest is open to all 2+2ers.


The purpose of this thread is also to ask questions about the contest, discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the stories, talk about active and passive voice, dialogue or whatever your interest is in writing.


This is the Lounge so let's try to be polite and use constructive criticism. Thanks! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(also, if you want to tell your 2+2 friends in the other forums about our contest please, by all means, do so.)

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

I don't really have any comments yet. I somehow didn't ever open the previous threads until just now. I suppose in 2 weeks I might be able to crank something out. Either way, hopefully I can get active in the contest some way or another. I always bum out on these things :-(

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Oh cool, I hope you submit a story Solo. I could extend the time frame to 3 weeks if that would help people. I think we have so many talented writers on 2+2. I greatly enjoy reading all your stories.

I was toying with the idea of writing a story myself but I'm so busy at work that I doubt I will have time. I'm usually burned out by the time I get home. Man am I exhausted. Exhausted and depressed. Every story idea that I contemplate has suicide as its theme.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

katy,
all the best stories have suicide as a theme.

all,
I am working on mine, but probably won't post it for another week. Also, I am busy now, but I def want to get involved in this thread with the comments and the such.

eviljeff,
A+

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]

all,
I am working on mine, but probably won't post it for another week. Also, I am busy now, but I def want to get involved in this thread with the comments and the such.


[/ QUOTE ]

agreed.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

I have already started two stories, and they both suck. Creativity is a long, arduous process for me.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Ok so I've read eviljeff's story and Coffee's. Whoa. Now I'm all weirded out. All 3 of us have death on our mind. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What does THAT mean?

(Wonder what Zutroy has written about. If his is about death too I am going to laugh.)


Wow I can't believe no one has commented on these stories yet. I'm very excited because I liked both of them (I'm so sorry, haven't read yours yet, Zutroy, but I promise I will!)



**********************************************


I'm curious to know what you guys think of the two very different styles of eviljeff and Coffee.


<u>Coffee-</u>
For me, Coffee's style is great. Very relaxing to settle into and well written. In fact he writes the way I love to hear people talk - meandering, each paragraph open to different avenues. You get the feeling that had he not chosen the avenue he did there were numerous other avenues he could have taken. With Coffee I feel as though I want him to keep going...tell me more about that town, our hero's past, a historic event. I'm the kind of person who always wants to hear the details of other places so I guess this kind of piece is up my ally. Just like in the last contest, I want to know what happens in the next chapter. I think this is an interesting trait of Coffee's, that he leaves me wanting more. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I like the way you describe Texas, Coffee. This part made me chuckle

For some reason, the Allen brothers elected to found their city in a maze of bayous and marsh, and we’ve been fighting the mosquitoes ever since. Four million people reside in the Houston area, and to be honest, I’m not sure why.

I lived in Houston one summer. The thing I remember the most is the humidity. I had to walk to work and boy was it hot!


I like the ending of this story. It is a good question - What if when we die we don't go anywhere?

Anyway, thanks for participating again. I'm looking forward to your next one!



<u>Eviljeff -</u>
With eviljeff I was amazed at how he quickly paints this picture of such a smart guy who seems to be so incredibly lonely. It is heart-breaking. In fact I'm still very depressed by it. What I like is how he does all this in a very short amount of time and I feel concerned for his hero because the descriptions are really powerful. This sentence makes me want to cry

Andrew had spent the night lying on a damp park bench creating constellations in his tuxedo.

But why the bottles? Was he just trying to create the illusion that he had drunk the beer? Gah, forgive me, I'm just really slow tonight. Awfully tired. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]



I liked this part
Andrew calmly spilled his knowledge onto the exam sheets, humming like a baker pouring batter into a pan. With time to spare, he presented his symphony to the unimpressed wooden box. Another 'A' would fit neatly into his collection at the registrar's office. Reduced to four lines of archaic transcript font, this semester would be indistinguishable from any other.

Normally I do not like adjectives but this style of yours I'm finding pretty cool. Very interesting technique, Jeff, and I have to say I totally dug it. Thanks for being the first to go!


Now I must read the next story and then collapse into bed. Anyone else? Are you guys reading these stories?

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Katy - Thank you for the comments and for hosting this year's competition.

Eviljeff's story is an interesting piece. It's almost written as a pastiche of images. There is something inherently modernistic about it, both from the episodic nature of it, and from the general anomie of the main character. It's all sort of a nihilistic collage. I liked the imagery, too...particularly the one about him on the bench looking at the constellations. This is good work, but not something to read if you're feeling down about yourself.

Zutroy's story has some very good things about it. I think that the argument between the elites is fairly standard dialogue, but I believe that was the point. I loved the vivid imagery of the creature, the woman, and the church with the priest. I felt a bit confused about your choices in the ending, simply because it seems a bit kneejerk. In other words...I understand the image of the woman, and the character of the priest...but why was the priest subservient to the cat-creature? Is this an affirmation of God or of paganism? I was just a bit confused by the symbolism of the cat-creature, because the other two symbols were so clearly that of Judeo-Christian tradition. Overall, it was a very vivid piece...could you shed some light on the ending, though...perhaps after a bit of discussion from everyone else?

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

The Final- An insanely well written story with a very unique and fitting style. I really enjoyed the different segments, though I didn't really "get" it at first. However, after
reading a few of the above posts and reflecting a bit, I feel a bit stupid for not piecing it together sooner. Thoroughly depressing and overall very well done. Also, I really love the following sentence:
"The pencils clawed maniacally at their flimsy adversaries, inflicting leaded scars at the will of the frenzied young scholars."


The Hitchhiker- I enjoyed the rambling, stream of consciousness style and found the story to be pretty interesting overall, particularly the ending. I understand you threw this together and all, but the story could have used a bit of focus. The main character went off on a few tangents, which is usually a good thing for that style, but I felt that they didn't add as much to the overall understanding of the character as they could have. On the other hand, I really enjoyed this part:
"I guess I thought it would hurt at this point, but strangely, there wasn’t any pain…just that pressure, almost like a chiropractor trying to crack my chest, but failing to do so."


Also, you are quite correct about the ending, good sir. I toyed with the idea of placing the priest behind the altar and the cat at his side but didn't for a few reasons: I liked the image of the cat seated proudly on the altar and was somewhat hesitant to edit my work in any significant way before getting a few outside opinions. I had hoped it was clear that both the angel and the cat served at the pleasure of the priest but, in retrospect, I don't think I worded the ending properly.

As for the cat itself, I would like to hear from a few more people before revealing my interpretation, as the cat is meant to be an important symbol and I was worried I did not convey it properly (or that the cat was a flawed premise to begin with). However, food for thought: is this cat normal and how does Jerold react to the cat? What does he do afterward and where does he eventually end up? Assume I didn't [censored] up the ending and the reader is left with the impression that the cat serves the priest.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Im currently jotting down ideas every so often, trying to get something in my mind ticking. Have not done anything like this since high school.

Any pointers on the basic concepts of short stories? I was thinking like...preface, introduction, maybe foreshadowing the ending right at the start? Followed by 2 conflicts, resolution and conclusion?

I dont think I know what im talking about, maybe I should read some of the stories that have been submitted and kinda get a basic layout.

Its not like I have any major responsibilities in my life at the moment, im just cursed with laziness and my love for bbv.

Like I said earlier any pointers on a good structure are welcome with open arms.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

There are a couple of definites in life - two of them are: 1. If you want to be a good singer, you listen to as much music in the genre as you are trying to perform in, and 2. If you want to be a good writer, you read EVERYTHING you can get your hands on.

If you want to be a good short story writer, I suggest reading everying written by Anton Chekhov and Alice Munro. They are the two ABSOLUTE gold standards in short story writing over the last 100 years or so.

I don't think I'm letting anything out of the bag here. They both highlight the three most important aspects of short story writing: Character, Character, and Character. I went to a reading by Pam Houston, a writer/teaching in the University of California collegiate system, and I asked her what the key to writing short stories was, and she told me to go read John Updike and see how he wrote his characters.

Needless to say, I will be writing my own short story for this competition, and I rely still too much on plot and metaphor. There is only so much you can do with 3000 words or so, so one of these days I may actually realize how to write really good characters.

Good luck to all, and I can't wait to read all the entries.

- Jay

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]

As for the cat itself, I would like to hear from a few more people before revealing my interpretation, as the cat is meant to be an important symbol and I was worried I did not convey it properly (or that the cat was a flawed premise to begin with). However, food for thought: is this cat normal and how does Jerold react to the cat? What does he do afterward and where does he eventually end up? Assume I didn't [censored] up the ending and the reader is left with the impression that the cat serves the priest.

[/ QUOTE ]


I need to go back and reread your story. I read it late last night and don't remember the entire sequence. However, I remember walking away from it feeling very creeped out. It gave me the shudders. I was thinking what's going on here? Did I misread something? (exhausted you know) I was like...is Zutroy saying that the devil is in cahoots with God? Is he saying that religion and God are in fact real, but God has been tricked by the devil? Tell me he is not saying that! Maybe it's just my imagination that placed the devil in this story and Zutroy meant nothing of the sort. GAH. lol, I think I need to read these stories when I am fresh and can focus.

I will read it today at lunch and report back with my 2nd interpretation. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

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Like I said earlier any pointers on a good structure are welcome with open arms.

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I would say the core of most stories are:
character+problem-----&gt;resolution

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

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If you want to be a good short story writer, I suggest reading everying written by Anton Chekhov and Alice Munro. They are the two ABSOLUTE gold standards in short story writing over the last 100 years or so.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-st...ndexframe.html

This site has a lot of stories available online for free. In addition to the two mentioned in the quote, I'd recommend James Joyce and Katherine Mansfield.

edit: okay, I checked and Joyce and Munro aren't available on that site, due to copyright or whatever, but you've still got a ton of material to look through there and elsewhere on the internets

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As for the cat itself, I would like to hear from a few more people before revealing my interpretation, as the cat is meant to be an important symbol and I was worried I did not convey it properly (or that the cat was a flawed premise to begin with). However, food for thought: is this cat normal and how does Jerold react to the cat? What does he do afterward and where does he eventually end up? Assume I didn't [censored] up the ending and the reader is left with the impression that the cat serves the priest.

[/ QUOTE ]


I need to go back and reread your story. I read it late last night and don't remember the entire sequence. However, I remember walking away from it feeling very creeped out. It gave me the shudders. I was thinking what's going on here? Did I misread something? (exhausted you know) I was like...is Zutroy saying that the devil is in cahoots with God? Is he saying that religion and God are in fact real, but God has been tricked by the devil? Tell me he is not saying that! Maybe it's just my imagination that placed the devil in this story and Zutroy meant nothing of the sort. GAH. lol, I think I need to read these stories when I am fresh and can focus.

I will read it today at lunch and report back with my 2nd interpretation. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea if it was intended to be interpreted the way I do, but I think the story can be taken different ways, depending on your views on religion.

I took the priest to be evil, the Devil possibly, and he had just succeeded in convincing another person from believing in the truth; that science is more important than God, to believing that God is the most important. It may seem like a backwards thing for the devil to do, but if you consider one of the worst evils is to keep "man" ignorant, it's very fitting for the Devil.

I don't know if that is how the author intended it, but as an agnostic, that is how I took it. My favorite of the stories submitted so far, in any case.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Thank you, Taso, I was thinking along similiar lines. and yes it is a very good story. Well told and really gets you thinking. I hope more people read and comment on these.


[ QUOTE ]
I understand the image of the woman, and the character of the priest...but why was the priest subservient to the cat-creature? Is this an affirmation of God or of paganism? I was just a bit confused by the symbolism of the cat-creature, because the other two symbols were so clearly that of Judeo-Christian tradition.

[/ QUOTE ]


Zutroy please tell us what the cat creature symbolizes in your story. It is bugging the heck out of me that I don't know the meaning of this story.

At first I thought that Jerold, a doubter, turns to the church for salvation. Upon forgetting his hat he makes the horrible discovery that the priest is actually a servant of the cat who I had determined was the devil [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] and I figured the angel was dead, having been destroyed by Satan. This interpretation sent shivers down my spine.

On second reading, I am now wondering if the cat is simply a servant of an angry god who has managed to scare Jerold into the church. Can anyone else shed some light?

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

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But why the bottles? Was he just trying to create the illusion that he had drunk the beer?

[/ QUOTE ]

right. the bottles help make his suicide look like an accident. think about what the investigator's report will say.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


If you want to be a good short story writer, I suggest reading everying written by Anton Chekhov and Alice Munro. They are the two ABSOLUTE gold standards in short story writing over the last 100 years or so.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-st...ndexframe.html

This site has a lot of stories available online for free. In addition to the two mentioned in the quote, I'd recommend James Joyce and Katherine Mansfield.

edit: okay, I checked and Joyce and Munro aren't available on that site, due to copyright or whatever, but you've still got a ton of material to look through there and elsewhere on the internets

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't leave Raymond Carver out.

Also, I'd recommend strongly people who may not be credited as being great artists, but who can simply write a very enjoyable story. Too often a writer "settles" for being artistic and somewhere along the way loses the ability to keep momentum and maintain the continuous dream of a story, keeping it sparking and supple and fun. Telling a good story well is, perversely, one of the less esteemed talents of today's storytellers. Story is in large part communication, and parking your story in a narrow though perhaps exalted intellectual or stylistic ghetto with little other appeal ensures that you will in important ways miss your mark as an artist by keeping your talents largely to yourself.

Few writers wouldn't benefit from reading and a thorough study of imaginative and entertaining pure storytellers like Charles Beaumont, Roald Dahl, Richard Matheson, Richard Price, William Goldman, and Ira Levin. A little Homer, Hans Christian Andersen, and The Brothers Grimm wouldn't hurt either. A good storyteller reaching toward art can sometimes get there handily and be timeless regardless, but a poor or middling storyteller, however great his talents elsewhere, is so much a part of his time that he may even vanish during it.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But why the bottles? Was he just trying to create the illusion that he had drunk the beer?

[/ QUOTE ]

right. the bottles help make his suicide look like an accident. think about what the investigator's report will say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im kind of confused. Did he chase the ball into a pool and hit his head on the edge?

ALso, sorry for potentially being nitpicky but wont the coroners report show no BAC.

-JP

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

I think there are definitely a few ways to interrupt the story and I really like the one mentioned in Taso post, though I must admit I had a different take, which I will likely outline later (though I will say that the title is fairly important and Everett and the Priest have something in common, despite being largely different.)

Fantasies of Jessica Fazer - This story leads very well and I like the colloquial, realistic sounding dialogue mixed with the well-written narration. The build up is well done and the theme is presented clearly, though not too obviously. Plus, bonus points for "Shee-it" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

I just read Fantasies of Jessica Fazer. I am pleased to see that we have a newcomer to the Lounge! Well I'm excited by the variety of styles we have in our contest right now. You guys are awesome. - Damn, Crashwhips, that story is well written. Has everyone read the latest submission? I think you will enjoy it. If you haven't read it here is a hint of what you're missing


As I look at Jessica, her shiny, flowing black hair, her utterly perfect, angelic face, I'm not thinking of Mary. Jessica is wearing no bra and her full, perky breasts look ready to pop out in a low cut shirt that exposes plentiful cleavage and the top of her right nipple. She is wearing tight jeans that hug her shapely hips and luscious legs.


this part made me smile -

"Thanks." The six cans of liquid courage are taking their effect, and I feel perfectly natural as I say, "You're the most prettiest girl in the school. I really like you."

(I can relate. Get enough alcohol in me and I have no problem being embarrassingly forward too.)


This latest addition has something that I dig - a lot of dialogue. Zutroy is right, the dialogue is very natural and not over embellished. Nice job Crashwhips. Your writing succeeds in making the reader feel like she is there watching the scenes unfold. From the opening I was hooked and I felt like a voyeur. In fact I feel like you could have even gone into slightly more detail in the intimate scenes. Seriously. (I guess I wanted more [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].) Anyone who reads this story will relate to the hero. He reminds me of several guys on this site.

Lol at "shee-it". hey you have to respect that. Crashwhips you are a good writer. Oh and I loved your last line, btw.

Re: Writing Competition: Discussion Thread
 

Just read It's Only a Game, written by Daffyduck.

Honestly, when I started it I felt slightly dissapointed that I was about to read a "sports" story - that changed completly as I went on.

It was extremly well told, if it were a movie I'd say it was perfectly edited, meaning, it could have been written all linearly, but the different segments made it awesome. As I read, I realized it was more a story of a man's dreams. By the end of it, once I knew how much was riding on that golf shot, I was as anxious as "he" was.

Very well written, good read.