Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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Well, if sticking to principle only means sticking to them when it is in your best interest, we're obviously operating with two different version of the word principle.

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Cults have principles. The principle of being brain-washed into sticking with something even when it makes your life worse.

I wouldn't use such strong language except for the fact that he might not be able to get his diabetes treated and the union is being plainly moronic.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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What does your dad think about the situation?

Don't worry about your dad. Its very ususual for companies to hire permanent replacements for established unions.

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Yes, but it's fairly common for them to weather a long strike in order to force the union to accept the same deal (or a worse one) that they could have gotten in the first place. The fact that there second offer was worse than the original is a pretty good sign that the company is going to play hardball now. Corporations have figured out that a strike often hurts the workers more than the company. The NY people who are trying to use a strike to get rid of a manager they don't like are retards.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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Well, if sticking to principle only means sticking to them when it is in your best interest, we're obviously operating with two different version of the word principle.

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This is the problem. A union exists to always protect the workers. I am having trouble envisioning when a union should do something that isn't in its members best interest.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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If I own stock in a company usually I support a get tough with the unions strategy. It may not be that bad though. The UAW went out on strike against GM and that one was settled very quickly.

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I support a "Give them an hour to pout and get their asses back on the job, or you're fired and I'll hire some drivers who will work for $40k a yr instead of $80k" strategy.

Sorry to hear about your dad though. Situations like his are why I don't like unions.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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They drive a [censored] truck. They are gonna go from 80,000/year jobs with health and retirement benefits to 30,000/year jobs with no benefits if they blow this. How can you not show up to vote on that contract?

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I'm reminded of a Simpsons line:

"Can't somebody else do it?"

Not to say that your whole story sounds like BS, but... I don't know how else to phrase that. The NY guys don't like their depot manager so they're going to willing lose $80k/year jobs over it? That's so completely logical that I'm sure there's nothing else going on in that situation.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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If I own stock in a company usually I support a get tough with the unions strategy. It may not be that bad though. The UAW went out on strike against GM and that one was settled very quickly.

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I support a "Give them an hour to pout and get their asses back on the job, or you're fired and I'll hire some drivers who will work for $40k a yr instead of $80k" strategy.

Sorry to hear about your dad though. Situations like his are why I don't like unions.

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This makes no sense. You realize that his situation, while not ideal, is a a hell of a lot better than it would have been if there was never any union at all, right?

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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Well, if sticking to principle only means sticking to them when it is in your best interest, we're obviously operating with two different version of the word principle.

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Cults have principles. The principle of being brain-washed into sticking with something even when it makes your life worse.

I wouldn't use such strong language except for the fact that he might not be able to get his diabetes treated and the union is being plainly moronic.

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The principle is solidarity. It means sticking by your fellow men for the benefit of everyone. Union men don't cut and run when things go south. They don't talk anti-union talk or turn on their fellow workers. A smart worker knows that this is exactly what the boss wants.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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Well, if sticking to principle only means sticking to them when it is in your best interest, we're obviously operating with two different version of the word principle.

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Cults have principles. The principle of being brain-washed into sticking with something even when it makes your life worse.

I wouldn't use such strong language except for the fact that he might not be able to get his diabetes treated and the union is being plainly moronic.

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The principle is solidarity. It means sticking by your fellow men for the benefit of everyone. Union men don't cut and run when things go south. They don't talk anti-union talk or turn on their fellow workers. A smart worker knows that this is exactly what the boss wants.

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It sounds to me like the guys who voted down the contract because of something unrelated to the contract process have already turned on their fellow workers.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

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My Dad will go down with the union, even if losing his job means he doesn't have a shot in hell of getting the diabetes treatment he needs.

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He's not going down with the union, he's going down with a few morons who are risking their jobs (and the jobs of their fellow union members) because their new boss is a pain in the ass.

A union is made up of people. It's not a thing that deserves loyalty in and of itself. If the people in the union all start acting like idiots, it may be time to rethink one's loyalties.

Re: My Dad\'s [censored] Union
 

If the company is playing hardball with the reduced second contract it sounds like they are trying to get rid of the union anyway. I doubt that anything better could have been negotiated. They probably don't want to overpay for these jobs, and have figured out a way around the problem.

Hopefully thats not the case and you Dad will be back at work shortly.