s915 and Brocathmel
 

Disclaimer: A lot of my knowledge of s915 is 2nd hand as I've only played ~100 hands with him.

Is there something we've all been missing? I know these guys probably aren't the same person but they seem to have one strange similarity which noone else has...

- VPIP by position - Both s915 and Brocathmel played very loose UTG and got progressively tighter until the button. Noone else I've ever seen plays like this. It's pretty obvious both guys are intelligent so I'm sure it's not by mistake.

Out of respect for s915 I won't try to break down anything else but I think fair to look at this one aspect of his (and Brocathmel's) game as it's so peculiar.

Obviously, both defend a ton from the sb/bb and have obvious "leaks" preflop and post but both are/were huge winners. They both could just be huge luckboxes but that's very close-minded and I prefer to assume that maybe they're on to something that we've been missing.

Thoughts?

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Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

we have these threads all the time. from derb to poet to broc. now s915. you know we have never really concluded anything worthwhile so im not sure if you are adding anything new. i think discussing it has potential to be interesting and worthwhile but weve never made much headway.

at this point i think it will be even harder to analyze these alternative (and relatively extreme) styles since we are exposed far fewer available hands than in the party days.

however, i suppose old dbs exist with a ton of hands on these guys and thats where to start. i think educated speculation has been found to be worthless at this point. if we really want to figure out the "Secret" we need to accumulate hands and data and get down to the nitty gritty and find a way to analyze where the profit actually comes from.

fwiw i was a decent winner vs poet and broc and kingkevin.

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

does brocath still play on party? If so, how has he done since party stopped allowing US players?

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

Could you query VPIP by position given folded to? Compare those results to yourself. The stats you mentioned suggests a greater frequency of open raising and isolating a lot tighter than would seem (if someone is a 30/20 and 3-bet my CO raise from the button I think they have a range but it's not quite that because their VPIP given a player is in the pot is certainly different).

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

was there anything close to a general consensus as to whether DERB was actually playing a +ev style or not?

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

yea it was my understanding that brocath was not looser from utg than he was from the button. His VPIP was higher but that was only because he had many more opportunities to open raise from utg than he did from button.

In other words, there were not hands he would raise from utg but not from MP or button. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

[ QUOTE ]
was there anything close to a general consensus as to whether DERB was actually playing a +ev style or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed the whole DERB thing. Was that guy called fuktan or something?

kcht347 had the same property of playing more hands the worse position got, I think. Anyway it does indeed smack of having a large open-raising range which is unchanged as you move around the table.

But as joker says, the question is, is it a good idea?

Guy.

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway it does indeed smack of having a large open-raising range which is unchanged as you move around the table.

But as joker says, the question is, is it a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]
im honestly shocked that people would seriously consider this

besides being obviously wrong on a fundamental level its obviously wrong on a practical level. open up poker tracker and see how much money u make opening QJo UTG vs QJo on the button

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

People give more respect to EP raises. Are you more likely to 3-bet a LAG EP open or CO open? He can steal better from EP than the CO so he is looser there. People just go by PFR and 3-bet him in steal positions where he has strong hands and they get killed. Certain hand types also play better from an EP raise than steal raise. People will give you credit for an ace if you raise UTG, so he doesn't need to raise weak aces. He can just represent them and people will give him respect for it. blah blah blah I could write forever

Re: s915 and Brocathmel
 

[ QUOTE ]
yea it was my understanding that brocath was not looser from utg than he was from the button. His VPIP was higher but that was only because he had many more opportunities to open raise from utg than he did from button.

In other words, there were not hands he would raise from utg but not from MP or button. Correct me if I'm wrong...

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason I didn't even think about that. Makes sense. I'll try and find all the Brocathmel hands in my DB and look a little deeper.

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