Some river play
 

I'm eternally trying to improve my river play as I think it's my weakest street. Here's some spots I found myself in just a few minutes ago.

All Villains are stations.

Took one off with the suited Brunson.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB folds, Hero checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, Button folds.

River: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (2.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Re: Some river play
 

Hand 1, fine.

Hand 2, I don't know. Probably ok.

Hand 3, super-standard vs a true loose/passive.

Re: Some river play
 

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Hand 1, fine.


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I disagree

When villain raises preflop and checks this flop but calls the turn bet he either has Jx without a spade or KQ without a spade. Betting is clearly the wrong play against that range. Feel free to put villain on a range and show that there is value in a bet. I seriously doubt it.


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Hand 2, I don't know. Probably ok.


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Both c/c and betting has +EV here IMO. I do think betting is best tho to get value from the lower pairs that might check.

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Hand 3, super-standard vs a true loose/passive.

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QFT. Dont ever check here.

Re: Some river play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1, fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree


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I don't read good and missed that MP raised preflop. I would like to change my answer to "I don't know".

Re: Some river play
 

Should've mentioned Villain in hand one raises any Ace in any position preflop.

Re: Some river play
 

1 is close to a fold pre-flop. I would check call the river to catch bluffs.

I would play 2 the same.

3 is standard.

Re: Some river play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1, fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree

When villain raises preflop and checks this flop but calls the turn bet he either has Jx without a spade or KQ without a spade. Betting is clearly the wrong play against that range. Feel free to put villain on a range and show that there is value in a bet. I seriously doubt it.


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or AK with or without one spade, or AQ with a spade or Ax with a spade. We dont beat all of his range, but at this limit..calling down with ace high and ak especially is pretty standard from people not willing to fold especially on the river with a missed flush.

Re: Some river play
 

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1 is close to a fold pre-flop. I would check call the river to catch bluffs.

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I've seen a lot of posts by expert players, and read in various books that this is an auto-call. Any two-sooted with a raise and at least one call is a call from the BB...
Bet or call is entirely dependent on whether you think the guy is on a draw or calling down with a worse hand.

Re: Some river play
 

I am no expert and I dont write books

But its an autocall for me and judging from the results I have with similar hands its not even close.

Lifetime I am around (0.2) to (0.3) getting 5:1 or better in the BB with suited junk. Thats with more than 1000 trials so we are talking several 100 BB's shipped to me.

Re: Some river play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am no expert and I dont write books

But its an autocall for me and judging from the results I have with similar hands its not even close.

Lifetime I am around (0.2) to (0.3) getting 5:1 or better in the BB with suited junk. Thats with more than 1000 trials so we are talking several 100 BB's shipped to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it's likely a fold for midnightpulp and I at 0.5/1 if we are only getting 5-1. You play 5/10-10/20 right? It's close anyway, but 7-1 I'd probably call any 2 suited.