Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

I'm going to apologize in advance for being [censored] irate about this, but the bottom line is, the fact that this muppet villain in the hand is NOT walking away with his head down thinking "i'll never do that again" is a TRAVESTY to this game

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Check out the video. www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329



As I have posted in the past, I personally have been [censored] in the same way, where a player CLEARLY throws his had towards the muck, ad instead, the dealer decides to keep his hand live. Absolutely [censored] obnoxious....



During a tournament in an all-in situation it is the CORRECT ruling for that players hand to be turned up, despite tossing it face down towards the muck.

I do NOT care what the ruling is, Foxwoods or otherwise. If a player in ANY hand decided to so BLATANTLY throw their cards towards the muck, ALL IN OR NOT, the hand is OVER. Once that player decides to throw his cards into the muck, THERE IS ONLY ONE PLAYER REMAINING IN THE HAND.

Absolutely un[censored]ing real....Instead of this donkey walking away for the mistake he made after getting PWNED, JC Tran is sitting there without the 20k pot. Like Chau Giang said, JC should have been shipped that pot...period.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

I thought from the video it looked clear that he tried to flip his cards face up but they didn't turn over... anyway the floor ruled that he couldn't muck his hand, so what exactly has the player done wrong?
The TD explained why the rule was necessary; to prevent collusion and chip dumping.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

If you dont wanna play by the rules, dont play.

Next.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

1. Inconclusive that player was mucking hand.
2. Cards did not hit muck
3. All Ins require both cards to be exposed to prevent collusion

Conclusion:
1. Right decision bad outcome
2. Seen worse bad beats! (always put on me of course)
3. Tournaments are luckfests

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

In the video does it matter that the guy that mucked his cards appeared to be paying off JC. It looked like he had slipped the chips over to JC and surrendering the hand.

Seems based on the rules like a good ruling but it appeared to me that there was no mistaking his intention to fold there.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

This is really sick. While the guy clearly was trying to muck his cards the TD is right that if they can retrieve them they have to go face up for the AI situation. Did anyone notice how after he tossed his hand not only did he not attempt to turn his cards over (which he would have done if he truly meant to table his hand) but started moving his chips over to JC?

The problem is the rule. JC got screwed even though the ruling was correct. They need to change the rule.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

The intent of the caller was to muck his hand.... it was not to flip them up... He threw them towards the dealer not trying to flip them up on the table. One of the cards actually exited what is consider the playing area of felt and went into the chip rack which is considered in many places to be off the table.
You are correct that both hands are to be shown during an all in where no more action can take place but if a player wishes to kill his hand that can be done so and then expose the hand. The callers intent was to fold. The dealer prevented it by turning the hand up. At no time is a dealer or other player to touch a live hand and turn it up, that is the responsibility of the player of the hand. The dealer could have instructed the player to turn over the hand but the dealer should not have turned it over without killing the hand first.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]

2. Seen worse bad beats! (always put on me of course)


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Has nothing to do with it. This guy pushed his cards FACE DOWN towards the dealer after seeing JC Tran's hand. One of the cards flipped after hitting a pile of chips inadvertently. If people do not have the self control to let their cards read, and shove their cards towards the muck out of pure tiltspew, they should lose their privilege to win the pot.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

He looks legit:

http://img.worldpokertour.com/Season...7184616500.jpg [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the video does it matter that the guy that mucked his cards appeared to be paying off JC. It looked like he had slipped the chips over to JC and surrendering the hand.

Seems based on the rules like a good ruling but it appeared to me that there was no mistaking his intention to fold there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, he drops a few chips from his stack in front of Tran's. Who does this? I don't know, complete fishcake obviously. Besides the point however....

NOBODY throws their hand away like he did, if they are attempting to stay involved in the hand. Let me ask you this.... If spewdonk shoved, as he did in this situation, but instead showed AK, and Tran had called with JJ on the 995 flop, do you HONESTLY think he would have thrown his hand away like that? No. He's a donk, if you don't want to let your hand read, rebuy.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

not even that interesting tbh

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
He looks legit:

http://img.worldpokertour.com/Season...7184616500.jpg [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I hope you're kidding, he looks like a live one more than anyone I can remember. Not to mention, Tran limp UTG, Giang limp late, Raise A7o, overshove into 995 flop vs Tran. Real legit....

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

I read that yesterday and was absolutely disgusted. Now after seeing the video, it just fuels my disgustation even further. Bad ruling, and bad dealer.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

this is standard practice.

the tournament director did what any of them would do. the dealer was correct. regardless of what you think should have happened this situation was dealt with correctly.

now in the world of should. i agree with you that the hand SHOULD have been dead. we don't play in the world of should though. suck it up.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

Yeah,

It REALLY sucks to be JC in this spot, but actually, OP, you are wrong. Tournament rules state that all-in players must have their hands turned faceup, and this is for good and obvious reasons. In a cash game, this would be a travesty, but here, it's just a terrible beat (2 beats rolled into 1) for JC. Nice to see the dipwad who won the hand get eliminated, though; he is blatantly lying when the floor comes over.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

having these people learn to let the cards speak > some ridiculous rule than HELPS deter collusion. Honestly, if I wanted to dump chips to someone, this would be the most hysterically simple defense to get around. Whether it be talking about a certain signal or what....ever. Just honestly, the rule clearly needs some serious attention. This is horrible for the integrity of this game.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

The dealer was correct, there is no such thing as "Magicmuck", I don't care what anybody says. In a tourney (if this was a cash game it's different) where all-in hands must be exposed the dealer did the right thing as the hand was obviously retrievable. This hand wouldn't even be known unless the guy didn't go runner runner for the straight.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He looks legit:

http://img.worldpokertour.com/Season...7184616500.jpg [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I hope you're kidding, he looks like a live one more than anyone I can remember. Not to mention, Tran limp UTG, Giang limp late, Raise A7o, overshove into 995 flop vs Tran. Real legit....

[/ QUOTE ]

East coast players are good.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

the ruling was totally correct...it just really pissed me off how the guy acted afterwards...lying p.o.s.

he coulda just been like yea i did muck them but a rules a rule im sorry man tough beat...not act like an embarrassment

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

So if he had not drawn out on JC and said "Hey I mucked my cards" what should the floor decision be? What would he have had to do for this to have been a muck?

I guess I am baffled that if I am in an all in confrontation and muck my cards without saying "I fold" and they do not slide into the muck pile then my hand is still live even though I mucked them face down the dealer can flip them over and deal out the rest of the hand?

I am confused.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am baffled that if I am in an all in confrontation and muck my cards without saying "I fold" and they do not slide into the muck pile then my hand is still live even though I mucked them face down the dealer can flip them over and deal out the rest of the hand?

I am confused.

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The TD said that even if you muck your hand, and it lands in the muck, as long as they can be identified they will be retrieved, LOL. Douchebaggery at it's finest.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if he had not drawn out on JC and said "Hey I mucked my cards" what should the floor decision be? What would he have had to do for this to have been a muck?

I guess I am baffled that if I am in an all in confrontation and muck my cards without saying "I fold" and they do not slide into the muck pile then my hand is still live even though I mucked them face down the dealer can flip them over and deal out the rest of the hand?

I am confused.

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In a tournament yes, your hand is still live as the rule is both hands must be shown. In a cash game you have mucked.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

seems like the correct ruling but i dont know the rules too well.

regardless, that dude is a total idiot.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

I guess I am just dense or my brain is not working right today but I still am confused about this. So the guy raised and JC pushed all in. At that point the other guy pushes his cards in like a muck but neither says Call or Fold. The dealer has the option of making the decision for the player?

I understand both hands have to be shown but the other player did not call the all in so the dealer made the decision for him. What am I missing?

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

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In a tournament yes, your hand is still live as the rule is both hands must be shown.

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So unless he says "I fold" the cards are still live no matter what. He basically can call an all in by throwing his cards silently into the muck? I am still lost with this decision and do not understand the ruling obviousely.

I would have probably been thrown out I would have raised so much hell if this happened to me.

Just shows the importance of verbally stating your intentions before making a move in a live game. I guess you can tell I am an internet player that rarely, for now, plays live and have never played in a casino setting.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am just dense or my brain is not working right today but I still am confused about this. So the guy raised and JC pushed all in. At that point the other guy pushes his cards in like a muck but neither says Call or Fold. The dealer has the option of making the decision for the player?

I understand both hands have to be shown but the other player did not call the all in so the dealer made the decision for him. What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the other guy moved all in and JC called.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand both hands have to be shown but the other player did not call the all in so the dealer made the decision for him. What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Muppet open-shoved the flop and JC called.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

The fat guy on the left was bluff-shoving on a 995 flop with a weak ace.
JC insta-calls with J9, the fat guy (omg how i love saying that), thinks he is dead, mucks his hand. (HE DID NOT TRY TO SHOW THEM).

The dealer follows the ruling, flips over the clearly retrievable hand, the fat guy wins with a runner-runner straight and continues to lie about what he did, to not lose the pot, he just won.

Shît happens.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

Ok I did not have volume on my computer at work so I could not follow it that closely. I thought JC pushed and the fat guy pushed his cards in the middle without verbally saying call or fold. You can see where I was lost. Now it seems like the right decision. The fat guy only pushed his cards in that way because he saw he was dominated but since it was an all in and a call the hand has to be played out.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

Was nice to watch him walking away a few hands later while JC had that grin on his face. That was the best part.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

guy just got flustered/embarrassed/pissed off and tried to muck his hand. hell, i have done stuff equally as dumb. luckily for him his card throwing technique needs work.

good ruling.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

the whole thing is pretty sick

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

i mean.. in all honesty, i dont see why JC is really upset either about the ruling, i can see being upset about the beat ofc.. i mean yea the guy threw his cards in, but its an all in situation where he was called, and its a TOURNAMENT. if this was a cash game i think it would be different, and in that case his hand should be mucked and there wouldnt be any controversy. but because of the way tournament rules are set up, i think the dealer needs to flip the hand up.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

this is honestly nothing more than a runner runner bad beat.. You can't fold when your all in in a tournament. Also there is no magical "muck" that if the cards touch its a dead hand. As long as the card are retreivable they are live. Runner runner beats happen in every tournament this is not special.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

imo he shouldn't even be able to muck. he could slide the cards face down to the dealer and say, "dealer please kill this hand", and it should still be flipped up and live. it's a poker tournament. it is not a cash game. there's a huge difference and the rules are there for a reason and must be followed.

if you don't like the rule that's another issue. imo jc has nothing to complain about.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you dont wanna play by the rules, dont play.

Next.

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Ecxactly! The rule is that he cannot muck the hand in that situation even if he wants to, so the hand has to stay alive even if he threw the cards to the other end of the casino. Period.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

what i wanna know is how did villain afford to buy in to the comp, when obv he is that stupid he thinks he is drawing dead. Photoshops welcome (sammy style)

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

How is there any discussion? There is no such thing as a muck when an all-in is called? period. end of.
I don't see how there can be differing view points on this.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

JC Tran might get more sympathy from me if he had said something about the "dead hand" before he got sucked out on. He wasn't interested in his interpretation of the rules until after he lost. Then, he tried to use his interpretation of the rules to win a pot soembody else's cards had won.

Re: Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods
 

the guy shoulda shipped JC the pot in exchange for a 1% stake in JC. More equity