Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

Ok so I feel bad this woman is dead, but the basic story is she got drunk , was late for her plane, got belligerent, threw a tantrum, had to be restrained, and choked herself to death.

Now the NY Times is writing articles about her death as if it was some sort of mystery or coverup by the Phoenix police. Her family has hired high-powered lawyers to investigate. Liberal blogs are talking about police brutality, why was she chained, why wasn't someone watching her at all times, etc.

This is yet another symptom of modern American life. When something bad happens, look for someone to blame. Never mind had the woman acted even a little bit like a reasonable adult she'd be sipping tea in rehab right now.

Am I off base for just thinking this was a woman who acted retarded and has no one to blame but herself?

Sorry if this doesn't belong in politics - but I think it points out a larger issue... the death of personal responsibility in America. If you're fat, sue McDonalds. If you get lung cancer from smoking 2 packs a day, sue the tobacco company. If your kid sucks, blame the music he listens to. Gas too expensive? Must be price-gouging by gas station owners. We've become a whiny, scapegoat, "find someone to blame" society, and I'm not sure if we can go back now.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

You're not alone. It's a sad story, but she did it to herself. I hope none of the cops get into trouble for this.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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Am I off base for just thinking this was a woman who acted retarded and has no one to blame but herself?

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Nope your right on track. And I for one am with you.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

If indeed she was borderline suicidal to start and headed to alcohol rehab with an itinerary that included a change of planes, why on earth did her family let her travel alone?

They want to point fingers, they should go find a mirror.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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If indeed she was borderline suicidal to start and headed to alcohol rehab with an itinerary that included a change of planes, why on earth did her family let her travel alone?

They want to point fingers, they should go find a mirror.

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I agree with this but she was in police custody and the first definition of 'custody' is care and guardianship meaning I think she should've been watched more closely esp. given her agitated state.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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I agree with this but she was in police custody and the first definition of 'custody' is care and guardianship meaning I think she should've been watched more closely esp. given her agitated state.

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Or she could have just calmed down, acted like a semi-reasonable adult, and not strangled herself. I don't think that every belligerent drunk is owed 24/7 police supervision when they're in a holding cell, on the off chance they might strangle themselves.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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I agree with this but she was in police custody and the first definition of 'custody' is care and guardianship meaning I think she should've been watched more closely esp. given her agitated state.

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Or she could have just calmed down, acted like a semi-reasonable adult, and not strangled herself. I don't think that every belligerent drunk is owed 24/7 police supervision when they're in a holding cell, on the off chance they might strangle themselves.

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We'll find out at the end of the lawsuit (if we live long enough). And if she were capable of just calming down she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. I don't want to be critical of the police here because the woman bears the greater part of the responsibility but if I had to guess I'd say that there will be new procedures in place after this case is reviewed by the department.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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I agree with this but she was in police custody and the first definition of 'custody' is care and guardianship meaning I think she should've been watched more closely esp. given her agitated state.

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Or she could have just calmed down, acted like a semi-reasonable adult, and not strangled herself. I don't think that every belligerent drunk is owed 24/7 police supervision when they're in a holding cell, on the off chance they might strangle themselves.

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We'll find out at the end of the lawsuit (if we live long enough). And if she were capable of just calming down she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. I don't want to be critical of the police here because the woman bears the greater part of the responsibility but if I had to guess I'd say that there will be new procedures in place after this case is reviewed by the department.

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There should already be procedures to put prisoners who pose a danger to themselves under special observation.

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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I agree with this but she was in police custody and the first definition of 'custody' is care and guardianship meaning I think she should've been watched more closely esp. given her agitated state.

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Or she could have just calmed down, acted like a semi-reasonable adult, and not strangled herself. I don't think that every belligerent drunk is owed 24/7 police supervision when they're in a holding cell, on the off chance they might strangle themselves.

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We'll find out at the end of the lawsuit (if we live long enough). And if she were capable of just calming down she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. I don't want to be critical of the police here because the woman bears the greater part of the responsibility but if I had to guess I'd say that there will be new procedures in place after this case is reviewed by the department.

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There should already be procedures to put prisoners who pose a danger to themselves under special observation.

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Millions of people get drunk everyday and manage not to strangle themselves. Why does she need a babysitter?

Re: Carol Gotbaum and personal responsibility
 

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Millions of people get drunk everyday and manage not to strangle themselves. Why does she need a babysitter?

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Because the knee-jerk reaction in America is to seek someone to blame whenever someone acts like an idiot. Why blame a grown woman for throwing an infantile tantrum and trying to free herself from her handcuffs, when it's so much more satisfying to blame the police?