Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

It goes without saying that people should bear the consequences of their actions. Cold call enough raises from a tight player with Q4s, and you deserve to be punished and lose your money. Get caught cheating on a test and you deserve to fail. Get caught pilfering company supplies and you deserve to lose your job. Etc., etc.

But I'm wondering if it should ever be the role of a civilized society to punish. Aren't rehabilitation and protection from the public the only roles society should be concerned about when it comes to incarcerating a fellow human being? Or should punishment also be a factor? And if so, how do we go about defining the varying degrees of the offense? Stealing a $1000 chip off someone playing in a $400-$800 game is wrong. But is it as wrong (or harmful), as stealing $1000 from an elderly lady who lives on welfare and food stamps? Should the punishments be the same?

What got me thinking about this is a recent news story about a man who, as part of a 12-step program for AA, tried to atone for a gang rape he took part in back in college. He is now middle age, I believe. The woman he raped, instead of accepting his apology, turned him in and he is now serving a 10 year prison sentence, which he will be eligible for parole in only months. This is not good enough for the woman who wants him imprisoned longer.

Don't get me wrong. I feel for the woman and she has every right to be angry, revengeful, or whatever else she wants to be. But this is a man, who now has a family and is otherwise successful and a productive member of society (and if he isn't, please don't harp on that. Let's assume he is). What's important is that he has presumably never committed another rape.

So assuming society does not need protection from this individual, and assuming he does not need rehabilitation, does he really need to be incarcerated? Certainly not if society's main concern is in the rehabilitation of crimminals, or in the protection of innocent citizens. Is it right for civilized society to be in the business of doling out punishments?

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

Incarceration is a bad idea.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

quickly, while I can still edit. Is incarceration an improper term, for how I mean it? I mean jail sentences.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

No, that's right. It's a terrible idea.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

I'm confused, because I'm sure you don't mean putting people in jail is a bad idea. ??

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

I think punishment is wrong. Even rehabilitation seems a little risky in my mind (the recipients of brainwashing may be happy afterwards, but I still think it's wrong). The only justification I am personally comfortable with is protection (leaving aside whether incarceration is actually successful in this goal)

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused, because I'm sure you don't mean putting people in jail is a bad idea. ??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, putting people in jail is a bad idea. If necessary, I'll elaborate tomorrow. Off to bed.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

The first thought that comes to mind is that you have to punish people for the deterrent effect. You tell people that if they do X, you are going to punish them. Well, if someone actually does X, then you need to make good on your promise to punish them, or else everyone will know you're full of it.

Obviously, if there is a way to rehabilitate someone while punishing them, then go for it. But trying to differentiate between rehabilitation and punishment seems kind of irrelevant to me.

But I admit that I haven't thought about this too much, so the safest answer here is probably a pre-emptive "boro is right" on whatever he will post later.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incarceration is a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is trivially true, if you replace "bad" with "suboptimal."

Which means that the requirements for supporting this idea are heavily biased towards suggesting reasonable alternative deterrents to crime.

In other words, when you elaborate, you must provide alternatives. Otherwise, you are just whining. I personally am very interested in listening to viable alternatives.

Re: Incarceration: Rehabiliate and Protect? Or Punish?
 

Just a thought on the specifics. If he was genuinely trying to make things right then he should have given himself up to the authorities and apologised to the victim. putting the onus on her to forgive or turn him in is a cop out (and possibly unreasonable pressure on the victim)

Otherwise imo punishment is not a goal of any decent society. Prevention, deterrent and rehabilitation are the only acceptable goals (punishment may be a method).

I wouldn't go as far as borodog but the vast majority of people in prison shouldn't be there. Interested to here his argument.

chez