200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

Villain is Narena.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $195
MP1: $349
MP2: $192.95
CO: $37
BTN: $215.95
SB: $634.70
BB: $202.70
Hero (UTG): $244.75

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, 6 folds, BB calls $5

Flop: ($15) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $14</font>, BB calls $14

Turn: ($43) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($43) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $25</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $223.75 and is All-In</font> (its $156 for him to call).

FPS? I'm thinking I should have just bet turn and river normally.

But as played yay or nay to the shove vs him?

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

Narena calls that river with only QQ and maybe 77 if you are lucky. I've seen him flat call a PFR with QQ before but I think he'd usually get busy on that flop given how draw heavy it is. I think you missed value on the turn. If he looked up up with AQ here I'll be amazed.

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

Yay. I like it (I think). At first I was going to say you're losing value, but thinking about it a little more, even a regular raise on the river shows that you can beat most hands he'd have (unless he whiffed a c/r on turn). Maybe you can get him to look you up pretty light by shoving and making it look like a bluff of a missed draw or something. I like it.

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

As a move not to be made often i like it. He really cant put you on anything (which is nice) but also he knows that you wont make a bet like that as a bluff often if at all. I think the shove is fine even though you can only expect him to call with good hands himself. he will never have qq here so id probably min raise to maximize my expectation =).

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

....but why shove on a bluff? A pot-sized bet is more than enough to get Narena to pack a wide range of hands here. The extra money from the shove folds out no more hands than a full pot bet would on this board IMHO. If you've got extensive history of river shoving narena with real hands, missed hands, etc then yeah shove for value but as a once off a normal bet works just as well. For this reason I think he'll take the shove to mean 'nuts/near nuts' a lot.

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

[ QUOTE ]

but why shove on a bluff?

.....

I think he'll take the shove to mean 'nuts/near nuts' a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

I called with a slow-played KK.

I think it was a poor call by me- however, you were only called because I'd just read your other post regarding your over-shove river bluff!

You were also helped by your turn check as it made it hard for me to define your hand. (I was planning on check-raising.)

However, you should have just bet the turn and river as all the money would have most likely gone in anyway.

Your turn check not only reduces the chances of getting fully paid but it also gives a dangerous free card to JT or a flush draw.

All in all, a good example of how not to play KK or a flopped set. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

I see your confusion.

What I'm getting at is I think he'll take a pot-sized re-raise to nearly always be 'nuts/near nuts' but occasionally might see it as a bluff and call with AQ type hands. However, I think he'll always view the shove as 'nuts/near nuts'

FWIW I think the shove would be excellent if you had f-all [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

I like it. Two good missed draws make this a good spot for a play like this. Especially if he read your thread about your hand against NoTurns. :-)

He's not going to call here that often, but I don't think he calls a normal sized raise all that much more frequently anyway. The only hand you're possibly losing value from is AQ.

Re: 200nl: Overbet shove rvr w/ nuts.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I called with a slow-played KK.

I think it was a poor call by me- however, you were only called because I'd just read your other post regarding your over-shove river bluff!



[/ QUOTE ]

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