[NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

Villain is Schemeny and seems to play quite tight from what I have seen so far.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $269.80
CO: $240.40
BTN: $198
SB: $253.40
BB: $200

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $7, BB folds

Flop: ($18) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $12</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $40</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $132</font> HERO ???

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

I fold there.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

I think you SHOULD fold here (although dont think I couldn't do it), he's pretty nitty, i think i have him running like 12/10 or something, and from what i've seen has generally shown down nut like hands. This is more likely 33-55 than a draw, or even 67 (i'm not sure he would cold call that).

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

When I used to play that nitty at fr this was a set 100% of the time.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

I still say fold, because of villain specifically. However, pokerstove says we are good to get the money in here.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

24,750 games 0.005 secs 4,950,000 games/sec

Board: 3s 4s 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.448% 48.73% 01.72% 12060 426.00 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 49.552% 47.83% 01.72% 11838 426.00 { QQ-JJ, 55-33, 76s }

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

So, villain never has the NFD here?

Because the NFD has, like, a billion outs vs. even KK. You'd be crazy not to play the NFD aggressively. I might also include 66 as it has 10 outs vs. overpairs.

Hard for me to believe that his range is not more like this:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

29,700 games 0.001 secs 29,700,000 games/sec

Board: 3s 4s 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.409% 57.31% 02.10% 17022 622.50 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 40.591% 38.49% 02.10% 11433 622.50 { QQ-JJ, 66-33, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs }


And you can't give him a straight here. If he can have 7s6s, than he can have all kinds of other flush draws+overs as well and that increases his range and our equity.

He may be nitty, but he's probably not going to play a big draw passively. And you have more equity than usual vs. a set here with your gutshot.

If his range is pure PPs pre-flop and he isn't going to give you action with JJ/QQ then check behind on the flop. Hard to believe anyone is that nitty, but w/e, you guys know him.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

If you are folding AA here i want you all at my table... villain never has KK-TT here? Get those chips in the middle. Im a super nit (16/13) my range here is more than a set.

Sometimes i think a lot of you like to say fold because you are trying to prove you can fold a big hand when really the fold is -EV

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are folding AA here i want you all at my table... villain never has KK-TT here?


[/ QUOTE ]

KK seems unlikely -- wouldn't the nit have 3bet oop?

TT also seems like a serious stretch, considering the flop action, doesn't it?

Maybe add AKs to the range. Anyway, I'd fold, unless your image hzs been LAG and you think he's putting you on a wide range to begin with.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are folding AA here i want you all at my table... villain never has KK-TT here?


[/ QUOTE ]

KK seems unlikely -- wouldn't the nit have 3bet oop?

TT also seems like a serious stretch, considering the flop action, doesn't it?

Maybe add AKs to the range. Anyway, I'd fold, unless your image hzs been LAG and you think he's putting you on a wide range to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is TT a stretch? It's clearly way ahead of a Tag's opening + c-betting range, and the board is drawy. Why not c/r there? If you have TT are you really unhappy if villain folds AKo? Or hell, any Ace? They'd probably be correct to push hands like AJo, but they aren't likely to, versus your 12/10 self.

Really, the only folds TT doesn't want to see are 77-99, or random junky connectors that don't have a piece -- none of which you are liable to get further action from because pretty much every turn card scares one of you or kills one of your hands.

And, clearly, a 12/10 is more than capable of thinking about further streets in this manner.

Board: 3s 4s 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.404% 40.51% 01.90% 190089 8895.00 { A2s+, AJo+ }
Hand 1: 57.596% 55.70% 01.90% 261381 8895.00 { TT }

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are folding AA here i want you all at my table... villain never has KK-TT here?


[/ QUOTE ]

KK seems unlikely -- wouldn't the nit have 3bet oop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If a nit knows hes a nit and knows the table knows hes a nit will often just call with KK or AA and hope to trap... trust me... we do this a fair amount and raise a fair amount to vary our play some. A lot of lags seem to think nits are straight forward abc poker but a good nit knows his image and will vary his play to maximize profit. When a nit 3bets what do you do... you fold.. so if we know that why do we always want to 3bet KK

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

i say fold; you have 1 pair, and it's not the best hand, especially considering he donk/3 bets you.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

nitty villains dont make a lot of moves postflop am i right?

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

Not a lot of moves but will easily get it in here with QQ or KK

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

why did you raise the flop

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
why did you raise the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

to charge draws, if I think I'm playing against a villain who will 3-bet ai w/ draws I'm probably just flatting here though.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why did you raise the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

to charge draws, if I think I'm playing against a villain who will 3-bet ai w/ draws I'm probably just flatting here though.

[/ QUOTE ]

then since you dont think hes capabe of 3b shoving draws, this is obviously a snap fold

edit: you're not op, nm

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

lolololol did you guys see my BBV hand??? Villain was the same villain from this hand. Fold as played. This is a hand vs. him from today.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $136.80
Hero (CO): $480.50
BTN: $88.90
SB: $122
BB: $252.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, BTN calls $8, SB folds, BB calls $6

Flop: ($25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $16</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $55</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $244.40 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $189.40

Turn: ($513.80) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($513.80) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $513.80 Pot ($2 Rake)
Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$252.40 NET)
BB showed 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Fives full of Fours) and WON $511.80 (+$259.40 NET)

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lolololol did you guys see my BBV hand??? Villain was the same villain from this hand. Fold as played. This is a hand vs. him from today.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $136.80
Hero (CO): $480.50
BTN: $88.90
SB: $122
BB: $252.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, BTN calls $8, SB folds, BB calls $6

Flop: ($25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $16</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $55</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $244.40 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $189.40

Turn: ($513.80) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($513.80) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $513.80 Pot ($2 Rake)
Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$252.40 NET)
BB showed 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Fives full of Fours) and WON $511.80 (+$259.40 NET)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't recall ever claiming that he would not play a set this way, lol.

He had the top of his range in this hand. How exactly does this prove that this is sets are the ONLY hands in his range?

OF COURSE he shows up with 33-55 sometimes. What's your point?

If he's not retarded he plays the NFD the same way he plays a set.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are folding AA here i want you all at my table... villain never has KK-TT here?


[/ QUOTE ]

KK seems unlikely -- wouldn't the nit have 3bet oop?

TT also seems like a serious stretch, considering the flop action, doesn't it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Why is TT a stretch? It's clearly way ahead of a Tag's opening + c-betting range, and the board is drawy. Why not c/r there?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I think it's possible. I'd just give it much less weight than other holdings (sets, strong draws) so I wouldn't go by pokerstove results necessarily. The same goes for KK IMO.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

push the flop.. on a draw heavy board like that- you cant fold. this does look like a set. a nit isn't likely to be cold calling out of the SB with connectors.. but any overpair is also part of his range there.. you still have ~23% equity against a set; anything else you have him crushed.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK seems unlikely -- wouldn't the nit have 3bet oop?

TT also seems like a serious stretch, considering the flop action, doesn't it?

Maybe add AKs to the range. Anyway, I'd fold, unless your image hzs been LAG and you think he's putting you on a wide range to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think he would 3-bet TT-KK +AK/AQ or at least JJ-KK + AK oop, especially because he played like 5 hands during the last 50 and 3-beted 2 of them! (sry, that I wasn`t telling you about this read, but I didn`t think that the discussion might come to that point).

Actually I layed down my aces and now that there are at least some of you who know this guy and are able to make a laydown here, too, I feel fine with my decission.

Thank you all!

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

i would flat the flop here... its a very scary board flat flop re-eval on the turn as played fold to the shove

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

Kawl. You have teh aces.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lolololol did you guys see my BBV hand??? Villain was the same villain from this hand. Fold as played. This is a hand vs. him from today.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $136.80
Hero (CO): $480.50
BTN: $88.90
SB: $122
BB: $252.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, BTN calls $8, SB folds, BB calls $6

Flop: ($25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $16</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $55</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $244.40 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $189.40

Turn: ($513.80) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($513.80) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $513.80 Pot ($2 Rake)
Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$252.40 NET)
BB showed 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Fives full of Fours) and WON $511.80 (+$259.40 NET)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't recall ever claiming that he would not play a set this way, lol.

He had the top of his range in this hand. How exactly does this prove that this is sets are the ONLY hands in his range?

OF COURSE he shows up with 33-55 sometimes. What's your point?

If he's not retarded he plays the NFD the same way he plays a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't read what you said earlier so I'm not agreeing or disagreeing w/ you. I just want to show that he bet/3bets his sets. I posted this hand because I found it funny that I was in almost in the EXACT same situation vs. him today as well (obviously I had a draw but you know what I mean).

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

Yea, I know and I`m happy you posted that hand.

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

Bilbo is on point his range is alot wider than you guys think

Re: [NL200] AA with coldcalling small blind => time to lay`em down ?
 

i've seen him make big moves against players who know hes 'nitty'