20/40 drawing hand
 

This hand probably played itself out more like a lower limit hand, but it WAS 20/40 at Bay101. Villain is an asian calling station lady. She has been at the table about 30 minutes and I have not seen her raise once. She plays about 50% of all hands. BB is hard to classify, pretty average, not crazy, not rocky, not over agressive, not over passive.

UTG folds, Villain is UTG+1 limps, 2 more limpers and hero limps on the button with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB calls, BB raises, everybody calls. My thinking: "Oh man, I only have a drawing hand now, flop needs to hit me hard!"

Flop (12 SB): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB checks (!), everybody checks to hero. "mhmm, I got top pair with inside straight draw and a backdoor flush draw, I think I'll bet to see where I am at.". 4 callers, including BB and villain.

Turn (8 BB): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to hero, hero bets, BB folds, villain raises, other MP player folds. Hero calls thinking:"Ok, now I need to hit my 4-outer, giving be 11:1 odds call is justified."

River (12 BB): not really sure anymore, let's say a rag like 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain bets, hero folds.

For some reason, this hand is bothering me enourmously. I'm totally sure this lady was not raising for value, that is check-raising me on a draw. Maybe she is totally bluffing and I am dumb to not call the river? I am pretty sure, however, she had already hit her JT straight. So was I wrong to call that check-raise, figuring I only have 3 outs? Or might she be raising with a set?

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

nh, i might raise preflop but whatever...
flop is a must bet, so is turn...against an aggro player you should prob call down since they might think you are betting a weaker hand than you have since you were last to act and were checked to...

on the river you don't beat a passive calling station lady that bets again...

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

villain hit a set?

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

raise preflop. you probably have more than four outs on the turn but the river fold as you describe is good.

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

I might be tempted to call getting 13:1. The thing is, your read is far from rock-solid, and I've been pretty surprised before when I player that I pegged as loose-passive turned out to be a lot more agressive than I thought. You are probably losing money on the call, but it might be worth it for the information. For example, if she turns over 88, then you know that she makes retarded flop slow-plays with her big hands.

This is assuming that you haven't played with her before. If you have, ignore my post.

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

With the pot this big isn't a call on the river in order? Only one more bet in a 12 BB pot?

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I might be tempted to call getting 13:1. The thing is, your read is far from rock-solid, and I've been pretty surprised before when I player that I pegged as loose-passive turned out to be a lot more agressive than I thought. You are probably losing money on the call, but it might be worth it for the information. For example, if she turns over 88, then you know that she makes retarded flop slow-plays with her big hands.

This is assuming that you haven't played with her before. If you have, ignore my post.

[/ QUOTE ]

In hindsight, I think you are right on. Perhaps she is not a fish, after all, she had the insight to call the flop and check-raise the turn. She might have had the 5,6 drawing hand, too and gotten good odds to call. But I should've called to get information, here I was just left in the dark as how to classify the lady. I left about half an hour later, too. That half an hour did not change my impression of the lady, but again, it might have been to little time. During the play, I was so concentrated on the BB, that her raise came out of nowhere and I truly must've had a deer in the headlights look. Oh well, always here to learn.

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

I play it the same.

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

She could have 78, 79 and hit her 2 pair on the turn. I probably fold too.

Re: 20/40 drawing hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, this hand is bothering me enourmously

[/ QUOTE ]

Because in limt poker it's a small error to call the losing hand in that spot and yet a catastrophic one to fold the winner.

Ok, catastrophic is extreme. But I believe the old adage about limit poker is true. You don't get rich by making big laydowns and won't go broke making crying calls.

There's an old post by Izmet or Abdul I qouted that says "Guys who make the big laydowns buy their buddies lunch at the buffet. Guys who make crying calls buy beauttiful women fur coats and fccck them until their balls fall off".

To which Andy Fox replied "Your lips to God's ears."