Chronic River Bullies
 

In my card room, there is a rule that the last aggressor shows first. But the dealers routinely say at the river, 'Show me a winner' and no formal showing process is enforced.

In my B&M play, I have encountered some river bullies who make significant river bets. If called, they wait till the other player shows. If they have the loser, they quietly fold. If they have the winner, the show and take the pot. I find these players to be dangerous opponents. Last weekend, a player made a big river bet and I reluctantly called with 3rd pair. I held my cards down waiting for him to show first. Then I said, 'Last aggressor shows first'. He quietly mucks his hand without showing. The pot was pushed to me. Another player said, 'Show your hand'. I said, 'He mucked, so I don't have to show anything'. The dealer agreed and push the pot to me and I slid my cards in face down. My thoughts were why give him free information when he tries to deny me information....despite the 'last aggressor shows first' showdown rule. Personally I think if your caught in a bluff, you should flip your cards face up for advertising. I play a TAG and I sometime a LAG game. When other players peg me as a TAG, I WANT to show my bluffs to generate future action when I do have a hand.

What are your thoughts on this on showing hands at the showdown and making your opponent show their hands? With the player in question their showdown bet means they have anywhere from a Q hi bluff, to pocket deuces, to a solid hand. By making them show first sometimes I can in theory, win the pot with an Jack hi if they are too embarassed to show their hand. Normally I just always turn my hand over immediately but when a player starts playing me tough....I start enforcing the showdown rules on them. My view is if you are playing me tough then I'm playing you tough. With normal passive players I try to keep the game more friendly with the belief it is +EV to be aggressive with them but not be a nit over the rules....

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

Other:

first poll: I verbally call my hand without turning it over. When shown a winner, I muck. If player doesn't want to show (and he is in his rights to ask me to show), I will turn it over. I don't care anymore about showing a goofy hand that much.

Second poll: I wait for at least a verbal call of their hand. I see people slowroll here with big hands as much as bluff, so I tend to wait.

*Never ever muck a hand based on what someone says they have. Tell them its good, wait for them to show, and then fold.

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

What does Doyle say?

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

Start instacalling his river bets, even when you miss. The stronger your call sounds, the more likely he'll just muck his hand, then you can either muck your hand and keep doing it. Or if he has a big stack, show your 6 high and wait for all his chippies to tilt away

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

It boggles my mind that so many casinos have varying rules about showdowns. In the So Cal casinos the last person to bet shows their hand first. No way around it. Also, In order to win the pot you must show both your cards, even if you have 3 high and the original better mucks.

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

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What does Doyle say?

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+1

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

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It boggles my mind that so many casinos have varying rules about showdowns. In the So Cal casinos the last person to bet shows their hand first. No way around it. Also, In order to win the pot you must show both your cards, even if you have 3 high and the original better mucks.

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So what happens to the pot when original bettor mucks then you muck?

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

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So what happens to the pot when original bettor mucks then you muck?

[/ QUOTE ]He who mucks last laughs loudest.

The first guy who mucks at showdown is giving up his claim to the pot.

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

I have had that situation too...but I have a side question. Suppose you refuse to show and make the aggressor show. He refuses. Then throws into the muck. And then...the dealer insists that you turn your cards up and says something like "I must see two cards to award the pot." I have had this happen to me twice and I did not want to give the aggressor the benefit of more information about my cards without him having shown me his cards. Is there any way I can object to this within the rules or am I forced to show my hand?

Re: Chronic River Bullies
 

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Start instacalling his river bets, even when you miss.

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WHAT!!!???