Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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Let's call a spade a spade. No other business in the world would be allowed to behave like this.

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Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

I agree well said. Patience has looooonnnnnnnnnggggggggg past. I don't think I could react in such a way as sillysal is handling this matter. I was just curious at what point do we call this type of handling the matter stealing if it's premature. 1,2,3 months. Wow it has already been 3 weeks and counting. Is poker rigged. Hmmmmmmmmm. Why not disclose what the problem is. I know F.T.P. doesn't want to reveal how screwed up their system is. I think they owe it to their customers. Is it too early to say [censored] F.T.P. and move on or should I continue to reserve judgement 1,2,3 months from now. I wonder what the majority of poker players think of F.T.P. not only on this matter but everything as a whole.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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OP's money isn't stolen or even confiscated. It's just frozen while FTP investigates whatever it is they suspect her of doing.

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"Seizing someone's money, with no reasoning or justification, and refusing to say when it will be returned" is pretty close to a decent working definition of "stealing."



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hi friends i'm back!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

well I think the "reasoning" is fraud activities, and the "justification" is information that they gathered after watching 92 (or was it 94) hours of sillysal's table play. So I too think stealing is a harsh word.

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call a spade a spade. No other business in the world would be allowed to behave like this.

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paypal did this to me 3 times! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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well I think the "reasoning" is fraud activities, and the "justification" is information that they gathered after watching 92 (or was it 94) hours of sillysal's table play. So I too think stealing is a harsh word.

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Source?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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well I think the "reasoning" is fraud activities, and the "justification" is information that they gathered after watching 92 (or was it 94) hours of sillysal's table play. So I too think stealing is a harsh word.

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Source?

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From OP's statement

"received a letter stating that my account was suspended following a 96 hour investigation of my “table play"

Without saying OP is innocent or guilty, I think this situation is a little different from others.. The other situations people usually talk about are when FTP just freezes people's accounts with no explanation.

I guess what im saying is....FTP saying that it is suspending the account after "96 hours of investigating OP's table play" is their "reasoning"

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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Let's call a spade a spade. No other business in the world would be allowed to behave like this.

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1. You are an insurance company. Your policyholder is demanding payment for a warehouse that burned down. It sure looks like arson and the owner is the prime suspect, but it's messy and you can't be sure. Do you:

A. Pay the policyholder "his money" for the loss of his warehouse.

B. Refuse to pay while your arson expert does a careful investigation.

2. You are a bank. A customer deposits a very large check drawn on another account at your bank. Now the customer wants to withdraw the money. Your signature expert says the check looks like a forgery but maybe it isn't. Do you:

A. Allow your customer to withdraw "his money".

B. Refuse to allow the withdrawal until you can contact the person who supposedly wrote the check, even though he is on vacation overseas and cannot be reached for several weeks.

3. You are a homeowner. You hire a contractor to do major work on your house. The work is done and he is demanding final payment. Unfortunately you strongly suspect that instead of hiring an electrician, he had his untrained and unlicensed son rewire your kitchen. Do you:

A. Pay the contractor "his money".

B. Refuse to pay until you hire an inspector to review the electrical work.

4. You are an online poker room. A customer wants to cash out. You are currently investigating apparent credit card fraud involving many tens of thousands of dollars in losses and dozens of player accounts doing multilevel chip dumps. It appears that much of the tainted funds were dumped to the player in a very suspicious headsup cash game. Do you:

A. Pay the player "his money"?

B. Freeze the account while conduct a painstaking investigation of all the money flows to sort out the guilty from the innocent bystanders. An important part of the effort is allowing plenty of time for the real card holders to discover and dispute all the fraudulent charges.

You say no other business in the world would behave like this!? Quite the contrary, almost no one makes a habit of promptly paying large sums of money to someone who seems to be cheating them.

Do I blame FTP for bad service and lack of communication? Absolutely. It's terrible and they do it over-and-over.

Do I blame FTP for freezing accounts while they investigate allegations of major wrongdoing? Of course not! Quite the contrary I expect them to diligently investigate fraud and cheating. I want honest games to play in. Furthermore if FTP allows themselves to be stolen blind then soon they will be bankrupt and then no one gets their money back.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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You say no other business in the world would behave like this!? Quite the contrary, almost no one makes a habit of promptly paying large sums of money to someone who seems to be cheating them.

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The difference between FTP and the examples you quoted is that in the examples, a business needs to provide a reason.

If you're concerned about shoddy construction in the bathroom, you tell the contractor that you're concerned about shoddy construction in the bathroom. You can't unilaterally decide that you're not paying the contractor 'cause something is not right, without telling him what is wrong.

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Do I blame FTP for bad service and lack of communication? Absolutely. It's terrible and they do it over-and-over.

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I agree.

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Do I blame FTP for freezing accounts while they investigate allegations of major wrongdoing? Of course not!

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I agree - you are spot on. I am a big fan of sites taking a harsh line against people who break the rules, and of doing what they can to stop fraud.

I don't think that this is incompatible with telling a client why you have seized $47k and what you're investigating.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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Let's call a spade a spade. No other business in the world would be allowed to behave like this.

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1. You are an insurance company. Your policyholder is demanding payment for a warehouse that burned down. It sure looks like arson and the owner is the prime suspect, but it's messy and you can't be sure. Do you:

A. Pay the policyholder "his money" for the loss of his warehouse.

B. Refuse to pay and tell him only that he's being investigated, but not tell him what he's being investigated for.

2. You are a bank. A customer deposits a very large check drawn on another account at your bank. Now the customer wants to withdraw the money. Your signature expert says the check looks like a forgery but maybe it isn't. Do you:

A. Allow your customer to withdraw "his money".

B. Refuse to allow the withdrawal, and then tell him the more he complains about you holding his money, the longer you'll take in paying him.

3. You are a homeowner. You hire a contractor to do major work on your house. The work is done and he is demanding final payment. Unfortunately you strongly suspect that instead of hiring an electrician, he had his untrained and unlicensed son rewire your kitchen. Do you:

A. Pay the contractor "his money".

B. Refuse to pay until you hire an inspector to review the electrical work, but not giving him any sort of timeframe as to how long this will take, and not responding to his inquiries during the entire process.



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FYP to reflect how FTP would handle things if they ran any of the above businesses.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

any updates?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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"Seizing someone's money, with no reasoning or justification, and refusing to say when it will be returned" is pretty close to a decent working definition of "stealing."

Let's call a spade a spade. No other business in the world would be allowed to behave like this.

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Customs. Not really a business but try crossing the US/Canada border with $50k in cash.

Bank of Nova Scotia / BMO / TD Canada Trust / Royal Bank (so 4 out of 5 of the Canadian big banks) have frozen accounts of mine for anywhere from 2-3 days to 2 weeks.

I agree it is awful and shouldn't happen but real business do exactly the same thing.