50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

Poker Stars
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.25/$0.50 Blinds
5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $49.50
BB: $36.00
UTG: $58.10
CO: $47.45
Hero (BTN): $49.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, SB folds, BB calls $2.00, UTG calls $2.00

Flop: ($7.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $3.00</font>

Pot Size: $12.25



readless, are we popping it up here or just calling and hoping to get it in on a brick or board pairing turn ?

thoughts with arguments please

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

i'm popping this to 11-13... we most likely have the best hand, need to charge draws, and we need to find out if these guys actually have a hand or are just messing around.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

Pop it up with a pot sized bet. Taking away drawing odds and you prolly are best here. Villian is prob 4 flush or drawing to a wheel. Unless he already has the str8 or a set he lays it down here.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

On a board like this one, even with a bet and min-raise, I'm immediately thinking flush draw and/or wheel draw for Villains.

I can see waiting, since, for instance, you're not even ahead of AhXh at the moment, but I probably pop it immediately to put pressure on Ax hands that have no additional draw (and also to get value from a hand like 9h8h).

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

I think this is one of the few cases where I call and donk 'safe' turn. I can't imagine they are doing this with anything other than Ahxh. If it's just a wheel draw, no flush draw, then it's no big deal... not like you are paying off when a deuce or Ace hits (ever). With set I think they clearly make standardish raise.

It could be a smaller flush draw.

Either way, you know roughly 90% of his range and are not paying him off when it hits. If you call and bet blank turn I think you will induce a lot of raises/pushes still on the draw. People don't like when you donk into them. That or they'll make a bad call. I don't think people are folding FD on turn. The only 'draw' you are getting stacked by are 2-outters.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

I re-raise big, fold to another re-raise. You are probably ahead of BB but that flop hits UTG limping range pretty damn hard.

Calling just loses money by not charging draws and getting lost in the hand if you're beat right here.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

I pop it to 12. On Stars this is ev+ for sure. People could be playing all kinds of crap and not just ace high flush draw. In my experience a min raise could mean a lot of things on this draw heavy board. I would then bet 2/3 pot on the turn to get the draws all in with bad odds.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

I cannot believe people dont think this spot is gross.

If we raise to 12, and we get called once are we getting it all in on a safe (9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] etc) turn.

If we get called twice are we putting more money in the pot? If it get's checked to us on a 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] turn are we shoving turn? We can't check because we can't give draws free, but made hands that beat us prolly check call the turn also.

This spot is sick that I think I prefer calling the flop. I think you could stack off here way too many times in a multiway pot.

Call, and RE-Eval Turn.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call, and RE-Eval Turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kinda like the arguments for this line and would play it this way at least part of the time.

Re: 50 NL - QQ gets donked into on a wet board
 

Weaker hands like small pps and draws will pay you off if u raise and you will win the pot if villains fold on the flop. Calling here gives the draws control and makes playing this on the river harder. It would be tough to fold with good odds if one of the draws hit.