Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

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Local government doing things that the people living there probably mostly support, because if they didn't they certainly wouldn't choose to live in San Francisco. Who cares?



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So if the majority favors a policy, the government should enact it and force it on everyone else? Isn't that in total contradiction to everything you've ever written on this site?

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I care very little about what local governments are doing. I certainly don't approve of this law, but people from San Francisco need to do what's right for them and it's ultimately none of my business. If it's something that's a national trend, like smoking bans, I'm certainly going to get a bit more riled about it, but seriously anyone who doesn't expect this crap out of San Francisco just isn't paying attention, and I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to live there.

Now if this were a federal law, it would be extremely oppressive and completely unacceptable, but local and San Francisco? Who cares?

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

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As an ACist, you have no problem with that? You too hmk?

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I have no problem with people in other communities living their lives how they choose. However oppressive a local community might be, the same things will happen in AC land anyway. And I certainly don't have the right to tell them how to live their lives. As long as it's decentralized to local levels, no, I really don't care a ton.

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

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Local government doing things that the people living there probably mostly support, because if they didn't they certainly wouldn't choose to live in San Francisco. Who cares?

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If people mostly supported it, people would do it anyways. Stores that provided these tree huggers with their hippie bags would have an edge over stores that didn't.

But it's a classic case of wanting something you aren't necessarily willing to pay for. Stores haven't made this decision on their own, because as much as people may mildly prefer hippie bags to dirty plastic bags, they don't prefer it enough to cover 15 cents a bag. So it's just people using government to force stores to give them what they aren't willing to pay for. As an ACist, you have no problem with that? You too hmk?

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You could say the same thing of HOA's and condo associations, which pretty much behave like mini-governments, except for the fact that they are so decentralized and mobility is so easy that ACists all seem to recognize the social contract with them as legitimate.

you can pigeonhole me into the "ACist" label if you want, but honestly I'm just interested in breaking up the federal government. If the states (or better yet municipalities) had sovereignty, I think that would be a huge improvement.

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

Are you (dangerously) posting again, HMK?

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to "pigeon hole" you into anything, heh. Labels sort of suck; I am with you on that. I was just trying to be clear of what exactly your thinking was.

In principle, I certainly don't agree with the SF paper bag thing, and I despise the fact that the mentality that when you want something you're not willing to pay for you just ask for it in the voting booth is so accepted. But I agree with you that it of course isn't that big of a deal at a very decentralized level. I just don't see how the principle in any way changes (and based on your response it seems you agree).

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

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Now if this were a federal law, it would be extremely oppressive and completely unacceptable, but local and San Francisco? Who cares?

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aren't normal light bulbs being phased out, and you'll have to buy fluorescent energy efficient ones? I'm against that because
a) much more expensive
b) the fluorescent ones are slightly radioactive, so if you drop and break one you've got a big mess on your hands.

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

costco doesn't even give you bags, and last time I went I only got one box, everything else was free in the cart.

fine by me, btw.

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

Are people seriously getting worked up by this move?
Sounds great to me; someone should force shops to help the enviroment if they don't do it by their own accord due to cost. If it has to be the local government representing the majority of the publics wants over private power then so be it.

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

The loss of small liberties that you don't care about is how you get the loss of big liberties that you do care about. It's only XYZ who cares? Well someone does and if you don't have empathy for them how can you possibly expect anyone to give a [censored] when you talk about how oppressive the state is?

Re: San Fransisco bans Plastic bags from Grocery stores
 

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The loss of small liberties that you don't care about is how you get the loss of big liberties that you do care about. It's only XYZ who cares? Well someone does and if you don't have empathy for them how can you possibly expect anyone to give a [censored] when you talk about how oppressive the state is?

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Sorry, but I'm not losing liberties over what people in San Francisco do anymore than I am over what people in Iran do. If it were my government that was doing this, I'd be righteously pissed off, but it isn't, so it's really not my business.