3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

live 20/40, playing 5 handed.

i'm sweating 2p2 Grease in this hand and i want to make sure i'm not giving bad advice.

an awful, loose, somewhat passive CO open limps. the button raises. I believe the button to be Federico (to 20/40 Borg regulars). he's a bit tricky postflop, plays too many hands preflop (e.g.limp UTG with K3s). Will semibluff draws on the turn but also will play strong and medium strength hands in the same manner. he wont get out of line with air however. SB folds, Grease defends BB with 7d4d. CO calls.

Flop is K74 two hearts. Grease checks, CO checks, button bets, Grease CR's, CO folds, button calls.

Turn black 9. Grease bets and I tell him to 3 bet if button raises. I think a fold is in order if button caps.

Agree?

Image considerations: I believe villain is good enough to play attention to the other players. Grease likely thus has a striaightforward TAG image.

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

I actually think checkraising a non-K/9/A on the river is going to be better slightly -- SpicyF'ing the river to save bets. This of course is assuming villain will still bet AK and AA on the river and won't FSDR very often with QQ. It's a lot closer when he FSDR's with a wider range of pairs under the K because he now will fold them to a 3bet and you definitely want that -- but if his range is mostly KQ/AK/AA/KK/99 I think calling and checkraising the river is gonna be a bit better.

Rob

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

Yeah, I think its good. AA AK KQ are all likely. The possibility of him semi bluffing doesnt really do much for me because he'll often fire his missed draws on the river anyway if you just call. If he wont, then its all the more reason to 3 bet.

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually think checkraising a non-K/9/A on the river is going to be better slightly -- SpicyF'ing the river to save bets. This of course is assuming villain will still bet AK and AA on the river and won't FSDR very often with QQ. It's a lot closer when he FSDR's with a wider range of pairs under the K because he now will fold them to a 3bet and you definitely want that -- but if his range is mostly KQ/AK/AA/KK/99 I think calling and checkraising the river is gonna be a bit better.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

do you think theres much value in possibly inducing an incorrect fold of AA/AK? or maybe that never happens anyway?

like, if you had AK here, and your read was the BB was TAG and straightforward, would you usually call down?

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

I like to b/3b the flop. You can trap co for bets and given your description he's gonna play pretty aggro anyway. As played I like b/3b the turn

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

I think I prefer bet 3 bet flop also...

BTW, do you remember what two cards where hearts? Can the CO have exactly AK of hears?

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer bet 3 bet flop also...

BTW, do you remember what two cards where hearts? Can the CO have exactly AK of hears?

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I believe the bottom two cards were hearts.

Also, I C/R'd because the person in between us was probably as likely to call two as to call one. I wasn't sure if Frederico would raise if I bet, since he is somewhat more passive than other players postflop, but I definitely considered leading out there to trap.

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

call the turn raise and c/r a non counterfeit card.

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

First of all, I think you should bet the flop. However, checking certainly isn't wrong. After you get raised on the turn I think calling and checkraising a non counterfeiting river is the right play, unless, like entity said, this particular player has a tendency to freeshowdown raise. Also, this may sound crazy, but against alot of players I will 3 bet the turn and STILL checkraise a good river. As most bad players who have AA or any king cannot help but bet the river and then pay off out of spite. Definitely not saying this is always or even usually the correct play, but something to think about.

Also.......this player will limp K3 suited UTG. You do not have to describe him as "a tricky postflop player, who plays too many hands" or whatever. A simple "f'ing horrible" would have done just fine.

Re: 3 bet/fold with bottom two on the turn
 

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like, if you had AK here, and your read was the BB was TAG and straightforward, would you usually call down?

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I would try to find a place to raise a TAG here if I was the button. Seems that AK or AA is ahead WAY too often not to.