4 High Is the Nuts
 

Smart Tournament Peoples:

Don't play a lot of torunaments, but went down with a friend for a $200 buy-in and are vigourously fighting about this hand.

92 starting players, 2K starting chips, hero has about $3400 or so. Say 50 players left. Blinds at $200-$400 with some sort of ante.

Assume average tourney donkness.

MP1 raises to $2K.
MP2 calls.

Hero wakes up on the button with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero . . .

Some thoughts:

The arguments for both sides are obviously.

All-in: You have better than 30% equity and really need to triple up given the blinds.
Fold: Eh, you have 4 high, you are probably getting just around the right equity but why not wait to be the agressor.

Is this purely a math question? Someone enlighten me.

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

realize that 2k raise is 5x big blinds. you have absolutely zero fold equity and are getting it in with way the worst of it. if villain had raised say 800-1000, then you could have an argument to try and steal simply because of your fold equity.

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

Way the worst of it--- um yes ---- but what about the money odds?

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

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Way the worst of it--- um yes ---- but what about the money odds?

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You have a garbage hand. A better plan would be to go all in with any two cards next time it folds around to you. Then there's a chance that everyone folds, and you increase your stack 25% or so without having to win a showdown.

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Way the worst of it--- um yes ---- but what about the money odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a garbage hand. A better plan would be to go all in with any two cards next time it folds around to you. Then there's a chance that everyone folds, and you increase your stack 25% or so without having to win a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep. pushing here is just dumb. you can find a way better spot to put your money in. I would say *maybe* if you had enough to isolate against one other player so as to be tons of dead money in the pot. but here both players are going to call.

bottom line, it is +EV to push any two next hand if all fold to you

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

Pot odds give you 3-1. But do you really think you have a better than 1-4 chance to win with this hand against someone who bet 5XBB and someone who called that bet?

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

No, I don't. Friend does and I think it is sort of close. If they both have aces, we have around 36% equity. On their full range of possible hands we have over 25%.

Re: 4 High Is the Nuts
 

this sucks so hard. you have plenty of chips left to steal blinds by pushing first in rather than getting your chips into a 3-way pot with 4-high. yeah, i mean, there's a fair chance you have 2 live cards, but if either of them have an overpair you're in terrible shape. i guess 43s plays better multiple-ways than it does heads up, but not nearly enough to overcome how crappy it is here.

fold. if this is "waking up" with a hand, hero can go back to sleep.

What if he has only $2500
 

I may have mis-posted. What if he only has $2500? With blinds of 200-400 and a 50 ante he only has an M of about 2.2

Re: What if he has only $2500
 

If Hero was the BB, then maybe it's a call on that stack size. As the BU, with a few chances to likely push all-in in an unopened pot with ATC before he's back in the blinds, still folding.