Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

I haven't posted in or read this forum in a while and I wanted to see what it's like these days. I was reading through the archives earlier tonight and came across an interesting hand that I had forgotten. There were some widely varying opinions on it the first time around, so let's see what you guys think now.

Live 15/30

READ THIS:
I am SB with A2o
BB is a very good player and fellow 2+2er who knows me
Other people involved are loose idiots

Preflop:
Loose MP open limps, also loose LP limps, I complete, BB checks

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, BB bets, MP folds, LP folds, I call

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet, BB calls

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (note: this makes me two pair, 2 is not just a random blank)
I...


1) Give some discussion on your answer.
2) I didn't feel like making this a multi-part post, but feel free to talk about the other streets too.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

your hand on flop looks like Ax or a draw. your hand on the turn looks like Ax, a straight with 86, or maybe 2 pair w/ 97. his hand looks like Ax or a diamond draw and he knows you know this. he should not be calling here with much else.

if you check the river he should somewhat expect to be checkraised by something good because his hand looks so much like Ax. i would be really surprised if he ever bluffed you with an unimproved diamond draw.

bet and get the sure bet from A3 A4 A6 A8 AT because he can't value bet some of these given how transparent his hand is.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

PF: Somewhat depends on blind structure. If SB is 10 I would call, if 5 I might fold depending on how bad the idiots are.
F: I would check, too, hoping to raise a MP or LP donk if they might donk. Since BB bet, everyone else folded, and I have top pair, albeit worst kicker, I call, too.
T: Since you know the BB, I would bet only if you felt that you could fold to a raise, otherwise I'd check call.
R: Since this looks like a blank, I would bet out here. The only other option would be to try for a check/raise, but only if you knew the BB would be likely to try bluff AND the BB thought you might be so tricky as to get him to call your raise. I'd prefer to bet out unless you really knew the BB.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

The crux of the hand is how often a good TAG is betting Ax in this spot. Your hand is almost always good so you should only c/r if you think he'll bet Ax 51% of the time. He may also bluff with xdxd, but it really looks like hero is going to showdown given the way the hand played out. From his perspective, I just don't think this is the spot to try and bluff at the river. I also don't think he is betting Ax where x<8 into another good TAG in this spot often enough. Betting is the way to go.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Somewhat depends on blind structure. If SB is 10 I would call, if 5 I might fold depending on how bad the idiots are.

[/ QUOTE ]
SB was 10.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

check and raise if BB bets.

1.If BB bet and A on the flop he will probably bet a river too if you check and you can raise.
2.If he was beting a FD on the flop he did not make it so he will not call your river bet.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

doing fine, thank you.

i've been known to spray an extra sb preflop to eliminate "very good players" from a hand and get the pot shorthanded with loose/bad players. A2o is a bit weak, but i may have at least considered it.

on the river, if the guy is good he's not putting in two bets with many one pair hands in a pot this size(unless your image dictates otherwise; at this point i haven't that info). so i would likely just bet and hope he has a hand to payoff with. our line makes it very difficult to look like a busted draw or a foldable made hand, so i think that severely devalues checking to induce a bluff. if that's the case we can lose value from the pair hands in his range that will pay a bet on the end but will gladly check behind if given the opportunity. if he is a relentless value bettor, it might widen his betting range a bit but i still think putting the bet there ourself is going to be best.

based on his description, making the assumption he is capable of alot of things, i would probably call if he raises.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

u play poker?

anyways i would bet the river and hope he has something to call you with because even if you checkraise the river he's going to need something to pay you off with let alone bet with and i seriously doubt you will induce a bluff from a missed draw from him. if he had a strong hand you would have found out on the turn when you lead into him. as it is, his hand looks pretty weak, at least too weak to value bet the river, let alone pay 2 bets with it. play it straightforward and bet.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

Preflop: Fine in a 2/3 blind structure

Flop: Since opponent is capable of betting a draw in the circumstance and a checkraise won't lose anybody, a call is fine.

Turn: I guess betting here is reasonable, since you probably will go to showdown anyway, betting is better than calling.

River: Since he probably doesn't raise unless you're beat, the gating factor on check/bet is how often he bets a busted draw vs how often he checks behind with a hand he'd call a bet with.

edited to add: I bet the river. Checking after betting the turn looks suspicious. I think you miss a bet way too often by checking here.

Re: Curiosity: How are you guys doing?
 

Must be me, but I don't get the stop 'n go... if you're going to donk the turn, might as well raise the flop. What will you do against a turn raise btw? Either that, or you can play it in wa/wb fashion, c/c the turn, b/f the river, however with2 pair, obviously it becomes b/c...possibly 3 bet.