How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

I am just a messenger here and don't even really know, for the most part, which players are involved.

Anyway about a month ago I happened to be in a (rare) 50-100 no limit holdem game with Kenny Tran, who I barely know, except that I hear he is one of the best high stakes cash game players. And I asked him how many of the top 20 high stakes NLH players nowadays, were mainly products of the internet. His answer was "zero, they can't lay down a hand."

Upon asking for elaboration, he told me that he was talking mainly about very high stakes, nine handed, live games. If the nine handed game happened to be on the internet his answer remained zero but it was closer. If it was a six handed internet high stakes game he now agreed that some of the top twenty would be those who are considered internet players. He also specified that he did not consider Patrick Antonius to be an internet player.

Again I barely know many of the players he was thinking of. And he didn't name them. If there are specific players who you are curious as to where he ranks them, you can ask me and I'll ask him. He gave me permission to start this thread which I am doing soley because it might generate discussion. I don't know enough to participate in that discussion.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am just a messenger here and don't even really know, for the most part, which players are involved.

Anyway about a month ago I happened to be in a (rare) 50-100 no limit holdem game with Kenny Tran, who I barely know, except that I hear he is one of the best high stakes cash game players. And I asked him how many of the top 20 high stakes NLH players nowadays, were mainly products of the internet. His answer was "zero, they can't lay down a hand."

Upon asking for elaboration, he told me that he was talking mainly about very high stakes, nine handed, live games. If the nine handed game happened to be on the internet his answer remained zero but it was closer. If it was a six handed internet high stakes game he now agreed that some of the top twenty would be those who are considered internet players. He also specified that he did not consider Patrick Antonius to be an internet player.

Again I barely know many of the players he was thinking of. And he didn't name them. If there are specific players who you are curious as to where he ranks them, you can ask me and I'll ask him. He gave me permission to start this thread which I am doing soley because it might generate discussion. I don't know enough to participate in that discussion.

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good to see u posting more

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

FU Kenny Tran internetz foreva!

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

ask him about cts...idk if u read the aj hand or not

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

I think the top 'internet' players adjust accordingly in 9 handed live games.

Look at Jman getting booted/not asked back over his nittin it up on HSP.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

super high stakes 9 handed NL internet games dont even exist

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

kenny tran couldn't even use a mouse

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

Ya, since laying down hands makes winning players at high stakes online when bluffing frequencies are through the roof. Obviously there would be 0 adjustment over to live bluffing frequences of nilch

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

Kenny tran doesn't seem retarded but things aren't always as they seem. Of course it's obvious op was to create drama "oh btw he said internet players can't lay down a hand, discuss."

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
kenny tran couldn't even use a mouse but is right

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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
kenny tran couldn't even fold a hand himself

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fyp

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

can't lay down hands? wasn't KT like the hero-call wizard of the WSOP?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

every live pllayer says kenny is the best.
So I think his opinion matter a little.
But when joining FT e said he never played any online.
So it shard to judge his evaluation b/c it may be biased.
Maybe you can ask kenny to join this thread so that you dont have to be a messenger boy, David.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

If he's not considering Patrik Antonius to be product of online poker, he clearly doesn't even know what he's talking about. PA made his name and bankroll online.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

pot, kettle, black

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

Skalansky is only the messanger cause kenny tran can't read.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

i also think cts, sbrugy, pa, and durrrr and other internet nl players should take turns playing kenny tran hu and see what happens

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

some great posts in this thread

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
some great posts in this thread

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it will only get worse from here imo

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

who cares about 9 handed, LIVE?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
kenny tran couldn't even use a mouse

[/ QUOTE ]

he uses them to hit and run people all the time.

funny that his main criticism is that they can't lay down a hand.

i'm sure that for a live, 9 handed game, he might be correct, though i suspect some of those stars 25/50 regs could have a shot. This doesn't mean so much though, if you were discussing 6max online games, the top 20 would be all online players

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

David, ask Kenny who he thinks the top 20 no limit holdem cash game players are in the world.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's not considering Patrik Antonius to be product of online poker, he clearly doesn't even know what he's talking about. PA made his name and bankroll online.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's right. I have been hearing this "PA was originally a live player" argument a lot lately (even from Durrr on Pokerroad Radio). Yeah, he played 100 euro PLO at http://www.grandcasinohelsinki.fi/ before his i_knockout_u days, but to claim he's not an online player is beyond rediculous.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
David, ask Kenny who he thinks the top 20 no limit holdem cash game players are in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

kennytran v. aba HU 4rollz live

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

lol @ kenny tran saying people can't lay down a hand.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
David, ask Kenny who he thinks the top 20 no limit holdem cash game players are in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would make a better thread.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

It is a commonly known fact that live players almost always say internet players suck, and internet players almost always say live players suck.

One of the few exceptions I can think of is Lee Salem, who one day was talking with me about how a year or two ago he used to see young "internet kids" jumping into his big games and he'd get excited about it and think it's the best thing ever. Now, his view is most of them play much better than he does and they aren't at all good for the game.

Also related to that discussion, he said that David Benyamine was telling him how the big games online were the best thing ever and he didn't think he'd ever want to step foot into a casino again for live cash games. As of a few days ago, how is DB doing with that whole internet poker thing?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's not considering Patrik Antonius to be product of online poker, he clearly doesn't even know what he's talking about. PA made his name and bankroll online.

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No. That is a side issue. He has certain people in mind. He knew that some people would consider Patrik an internet player so he just wanted to make clear that for the purposes of this discussion he didn't. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he would put him in the top twenty either.

Also, when he said, they can't lay down a hand, he meant in live games where he considered it a mistake. He told me about a hand where his well known internet opponent could have saved tens of thousands of dolllars if he would have made what Kenny considered the obvious play of folding two kings preflop. I guess that fold is never made in internet games.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
If there are specific players who you are curious as to where he ranks them, you can ask me and I'll ask him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Brian Townsend LDO
Ask him if he knows who Tom Dwan is.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also, when he said, they can't lay down a hand, he meant in live games where he considered it a mistake. He told me about a hand where his well known internet opponent could have saved tens of thousands of dolllars if he would have made what Kenny considered the obvious play of folding two kings preflop. I guess that fold is never made in internet games.

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I would hope this isn't his primary "evidence" regarding online players.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

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He told me about a hand where his well known internet opponent could have saved tens of thousands of dolllars if he would have made what Kenny considered the obvious play of folding two kings preflop. I guess that fold is never made in internet games.

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This reminds me of a post Gobbo once made where he said something to the effect of "one time i won a pot with 72, can you believe it, two pair, yup"

Clearly you can see why one hand doesn't define an entire group of peoples abilies right? <font color="white"> i.e. ducy? </font>

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

fold preflop with kings. rofl

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

David, here is an interesting question for you:

Hypothetical - I select 9 of the best internet players and Kenny Tran selects 8 of the best live players (and includes himself).

These 18 players are randomly paired into:
a) 3 groups of 6
b) 2 groups of 9

They play 100k hands of 6 handed NLHE and 100k hands of 9 handed NLHE with the pairings being switched randomly every 10k hands.


Do the internet players do better?
Do the live players do better?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
David, here is an interesting question for you:

Hypothetical - I select 9 of the best internet players and Kenny Tran selects 8 of the best live players (and includes himself).

These 18 players are randomly paired into:
a) 3 groups of 6
b) 2 groups of 9

They play 100k hands of 6 handed NLHE and 100k hands of 9 handed NLHE with the pairings being switched randomly every 10 hands.


Do the internet players do better?
Do the live players do better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obv he will say it depends if they play live or online.... but i think i see where ur going with this

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
David, here is an interesting question for you:

Hypothetical - I select 9 of the best internet players and Kenny Tran selects 8 of the best live players (and includes himself).

These 18 players are randomly paired into:
a) 3 groups of 6
b) 2 groups of 9

They play 100k hands of 6 handed NLHE and 100k hands of 9 handed NLHE with the pairings being switched randomly every 10 hands.


Do the internet players do better?
Do the live players do better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming this is being played live?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

I sure hope it's not 100k hands live. How many years would that take?

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

In the high stakes games I think the biggest difference between online and live is the fact that online players have much better tools to analyze their games. If a live player starts loosing, how on earth do they fix it? Seems impossible to me. I have had extended periods of losing at 5 10 NL and 10 20 NL that I know I would not have been able to fix without HH's and poker tracker. I accept that these live players may be much better then me, but their games are also tougher.

Also I think we can be very sure about how good online players are due to the vast amounts of data available. You could make a good argument based on data who the top 10 online players are. For a live player we have to resort to gossip and second hand stories. The error bars on how good a live player is would be huge. I could see them being much better or much worse than their online counterparts. (If i had to gamble I would pick the online guys though)

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
If it was a six handed internet high stakes game he now agreed that some of the top twenty would be those who are considered internet players.

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shouldn't be be playing in these games then rather than 1 tabling 3/6 and 5/10nl on FTP...i mean that is if he's the best and most of these internet players that are playing aren't even in the top 20.

Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
 

David, im not really sure how super high stakes games work. when i played 500-1k nl/plo game at bobbys room this summer, it was capped at 7 people. most of the other higher stakes live games i have played start off 10 handed, but then eventually break down to a few of the better players playing short, then everyone quitting saying 'this stupid kid keeps reraising, hes so bad.' in a full ring 10 handed setting, i think Tran is generally right here, but saying not 1 of the top 20.. i mean cmon. most of us 'online' players dont know how to fold KK pf. it is the second best hand after all. Most of us DO seem to be able to adjust though but god forbid we do, they kick us out of the game because we play 'too tight' and dont give 'enough action'. apparently the 'live players' want it both ways. tons of idiot fish that play too many hands and play them bad.

MY guess is tran played online a little bit at higher stakes games (50-1+) and got crushed short handed. i dont know enough about his game to even comment with any authority, so this is speculation, but i would venture to guess that he tried to run a bunch of bluffs like he would in a live game against the nitty people that fold a lot and got snap looked up by 3rd pair more than once, and got frustrated. A lot of the high stakes online regs just have a ton more experience in playing short handed, as thats really the only sort of games that get off the ground. For him to say that not one of the top 20 high stakes NL players is considered an online player is just absolutely ridiculous. I would take me, durr, z, hac, (urindanger and his bro) phil (jman) and whichever 4 guys he picks in a 10 handed game all day, and OH MY GOD if the game was short handed.. The best thing about this, is we could actually set it up, and everyone from our side would be very interested in playing.