Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

I've cast myself as Hero in one of these, Villian in the other. Hero and Villain both somewhat active in both situations, no other relevant reads.

Hand 1 - Foxwoods $3K MegaStack

Hero and Villian both have 19K, 100/200/25. MP who limps into every pot limps, Villain raises to 800, Hero raises to 2500 on button with QQ, MP folds, Villain calls. Flop 6 5 4 rainbow, Villian checks, Hero bets 4K, Villain shoves. Hero?

Hand 2 - Borgata $1500

Hero and Villain both have 9K, 50/100. Villain raises UTG to 250, gets 4 callers, Hero raises to 1100 with KK in SB. Villain calls, rest fold. Flop: 7h 5h 3c. Hero bets 2500, Villain shoves. Hero?

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

i talk myself into calling 1, 2 is a slightly easier call

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

i think i call both, probably raise more preflop in both too

the idea is that the action so far should knock out most of the hands that are beating you PF, and it's easy to shove these boards with all sorts of holdings and these stacks

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

Todd Terry,

Both hands seem like a call. I don't think you played the KK hand by the way. Raise is way too small.

Nath,

"the idea is that the action so far should knock out most of the hands that are beating you PF"

Are you implying he folds out better then his holding?

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

The preflop action will elminate hands that outflop him.

Bruce

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop action will elminate hands that outflop him.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what this means. Are you saying we want worse hands to fold PF because we want to avoid being outflopped? If so, I don't agree.

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

Hand 1 is pretty close and my default mechanism is to fold.

Hand 2, the reraise from the small blind, makes the hand pretty transparent. Unless villian is exhibiting fifth level thinking, I would probably fold also.

Bruce

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

I probably shouldn't speak for Nath, but I think he meant that the preflop raising and reraising would eliminate hands that could outflop a big pocket pair.

Bruce

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

All I'm saying is that hands that beat our hands on those boards consist almost entirely of pocket cards that should have been folded to the preflop reraise. Didn't think it was that complicated.

Re: Two Live Overpair vs. Flop Shove Scenarios
 

I just read it accenting the wrong part of the sentence I guess. Retardedly stoned. Got it now and agree.....thus my recommendation for the call.