400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

Villain is 27/10/1 over 60 hands. No real reads as I'm new to this level.

Poker Stars, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

MP2: $388
CO: $181.55
BTN: $467.20
SB: $400
BB: $433.20
UTG: $352
UTG+1: $394
UTG+2: $150.60
Hero (MP1): $1,437.45

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP1)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $58</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $42

Flop: ($122) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $80</font>

Basically this is fold or shove, calling sucks.

Pros for shoving:
1) I might force him off the same hand.
2) Backdoor flush draw gives me a few extra percentage points when I'm behind.
3) I'm only in awful shape against AA.

Cons:
1) He's probably not folding anything JJ or better, so I don't have FE vs better hands.
2) Some players check-back their AK/AQ here, so betting might be more weighted towards hands he's snap-calling with.
3) He doesn't seem particularly aggressive, although it's a tiny sample.

I think this is very close.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

I rather fold/shove preflop as played I fold, there isnt a big chance he has AK and all other probable hands arent folding.

so meah I fold

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

I'd fold PF. Then fold to his raise on the flop. He'll call your shove on the turn.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

i would fold.

also as gay as it is i would probably fold pre the first time i get 3bet by this dude.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

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also as gay as it is i would probably fold pre the first time i get 3bet by this dude.

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Really? I can't really see folding to a 25/10's 3 bet with AKs.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

his range is probably AK QQ+ at the widest, and its pretty much impossible to play profitably vs that range oop, even with AKs.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

Results: I folded.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

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also as gay as it is i would probably fold pre the first time i get 3bet by this dude.

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Really? I can't really see folding to a 25/10's 3 bet with AKs.

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OOP and without knowing he's 3-betting with wider than AK,QQ+ this is a fold. The 25/10 just means he steals and raises limpers a lot- you dont know he's 3-betting light yet.

Against that range, you're screwed because you're not extracting from QQ if you hit the flop, you're splitting with AK if you both hit and he's got a chance to push you off using postition both miss. KK will get away cheap if you get the ace, and if you get the case K on the flop you're going to loose a lot. AA will extract a lot from you if you hit the flop...

In short, AK vs QQ+,AK range sucks even worse than it seems postflop.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

I don't like the preflop call oop. I either fold or 4 bet here and call a shove.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

a little off topic, but this thread has prompted a question from me: should those of us languishing down at nl50 be folding AK oop if we are 3bet by unknown opponents as therir range is usually QQ+ &amp; AK?

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

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I rather fold/shove preflop as played I fold

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Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

shoving preflop&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;shoving here

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
a little off topic, but this thread has prompted a question from me: should those of us languishing down at nl50 be folding AK oop if we are 3bet by unknown opponents as therir range is usually QQ+ &amp; AK?

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If you raised from EP, yes. This is a fold against an unknown at any level where the play is not absolutely awful and you assume an unknown has a brain.

If you raised from CO and the button 3-bets then the range is probably wider than QQ+,AK and I'd at least call or possibly push depending on stack sizes.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

4-bet to $150, or fold preflop. Just calling to play AKs heads up OOP is probably worse than either letting your hand go because of your poor position, or reraising to make a big play for the pot.

As played preflop for the call OOP, bet/fold the flop for $100. If he just calls, c/f the turn unless you pick up a flush draw to go with your over cards, in which case, push the turn.

As played on the flop for a check, you should check/fold. I doubt he's going anywhere with QQ-AA, and "No real reads" isn't much help OOP with 2 overcards that completely missed the flop. Let it go.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

IDK how you can put his range at QQ+ AK. Its a 60 hand sample?

SABR how have you been running in those 60 hands? You play pretty LAG right?

Anyway I don't like how you played the hand - c/shove on flop or 4bet/call or shove pre is the way to go.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

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IDK how you can put his range at QQ+ AK. Its a 60 hand sample?


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yeah exactly so he's basically unk, therefore QQ+ AK

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

Pre-flop: Easy fold

Flop: Easier fold

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

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also as gay as it is i would probably fold pre the first time i get 3bet by this dude.

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Really? I can't really see folding to a 25/10's 3 bet with AKs.

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OOP and without knowing he's 3-betting with wider than AK,QQ+ this is a fold. The 25/10 just means he steals and raises limpers a lot- you dont know he's 3-betting light yet.

Against that range, you're screwed because you're not extracting from QQ if you hit the flop, you're splitting with AK if you both hit and he's got a chance to push you off using postition both miss. KK will get away cheap if you get the ace, and if you get the case K on the flop you're going to loose a lot. AA will extract a lot from you if you hit the flop...

In short, AK vs QQ+,AK range sucks even worse than it seems postflop.

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Looks like I've found a leak?

Crazy thing is, I run nitty (12/8) and I'm 3 betting with a way wider range than QQ+/AK...especially against a LAG.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
IDK how you can put his range at QQ+ AK. Its a 60 hand sample?

SABR how have you been running in those 60 hands? You play pretty LAG right?

Anyway I don't like how you played the hand - c/shove on flop or 4bet/call or shove pre is the way to go.

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I play pretty LAG but I've shown down very strong hands in all-in pots.

I really hate the way I played this hand. Given I called pre-flop I really should have shoved the flop or else pre-flop is kinda pointless.

Re: 400 NL, AKs, fold or shove situation.
 

hes on the butttttton......

4 bet and call a shove