Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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I miss watching Jimmy Smith play football, he was so dominant.

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lol

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

yeah, he's not team destructive...until he is

You obviously aren't a SF or Philly fan, and you've got a short memory.

If I were starting a franchise, my order would be

1. Rice
2. Harrison
3. Moss
4. Owens

but that's largely based on locker room chemistry/team image reasons

on field, I'd say it's

1. Moss
2. Rice
3. Owens
4. Harrison

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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people were hyping up dante hall a few years ago more then hester now

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pretty damn close to 100% sure that this is wrong

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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people were hyping up dante hall a few years ago more then hester now

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pretty damn close to 100% sure that this is wrong

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in 2003 he scored a return TD in 4 straight games (something hester hasnt done) and at that time he was considered more dangerous then hester is considered now

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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I'm pretty sure this is the most obvious level ever

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FYP

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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people were hyping up dante hall a few years ago more then hester now

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pretty damn close to 100% sure that this is wrong

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in 2003 he scored a return TD in 4 straight games (something hester hasnt done) and at that time he was considered more dangerous then hester is considered now

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I know his history very well. I'm still 99.99% certain that you're wrong.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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people were hyping up dante hall a few years ago more then hester now

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pretty damn close to 100% sure that this is wrong

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in 2003 he scored a return TD in 4 straight games (something hester hasnt done) and at that time he was considered more dangerous then hester is considered now

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I know his history very well. I'm still 99.99% certain that you're wrong.

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Give me that 10000-1 bet then.

It was an endless stream of Chris Berman "WHOOP", "WHOOP", sound effects and "human joystick" stories.


LOL at suggesting that either Hester or Randy Moss are greater athletes than Jim Brown.

Even bigger LOL at the obvious "Rice not top 5" troll.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Any list without Don Hutson is worthless.

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Hutson was 30th. Anyone who played before 1950 doesn't count. The pro players of that era are smaller and slower than today's high school players.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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randy moss is the best reciever of all-time...im not sure rice belongs in the top 5

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Study your NFL history. Rice redefined the position. Before Rice running backs got much more press than wide receivers.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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randy ratio is best eva

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John Taylor made many huge touchdown runs because of the Jerry Rice block. How often has Randy Moss made a key block for his teammates?

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Who told you that, ESPN?

A) You dont know if Rice singlehandedly made "many huge TD runs" because of his blocks.
B) You dont know that Randy doesn't block.

Assume you are right: Bobby Wade is an awesome blocker for a WR, is he good? nope.

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I'm 63 and a native San Franciscan. Don't need ESPN. I saw those games. Rice plays hard even when the play isn't designed for him. And Rice blocks for the other receiver.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

IMO, Chris Carter should be at least #4.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh_F2J8bUQ

i'll also take the 10000-1 bet

i mean i think hester is better but dantes return against denver>>>anything hester has done and i still think dante was more hyped up at the time

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

"24) Jimmy Smith

“he should be in the top 5 not top 30”

Is this your comment Needle? Or are there two people who overrate Jimmy Smith this much?

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Irvin > CJ

Also if you took any of the current guys and brought them back in time say 40 years ago, obviously they school everyone. The medical and training advantages they have now are huge. So I'd expect it's normal to say that the list is heavily weighted on current guys.

However if the discussion is just relative to the people they played against, then I fully agree that this list is crap.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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randy ratio is best eva

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John Taylor made many huge touchdown runs because of the Jerry Rice block. How often has Randy Moss made a key block for his teammates?

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Who told you that, ESPN?

A) You dont know if Rice singlehandedly made "many huge TD runs" because of his blocks.
B) You dont know that Randy doesn't block.

Assume you are right: Bobby Wade is an awesome blocker for a WR, is he good? nope.

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I'm 63 and a native San Franciscan. Don't need ESPN. I saw those games. Rice plays hard even when the play isn't designed for him. And Rice blocks for the other receiver.

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You get all of the Moss's games in SF? Also, so your a homer?

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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you can debate who is better and all that but i say what you should ask is if you were starting a franchise who would you want on your team. Order imo:
1. rice
2. owens
3. harrison
4. moss

i think alot of people underrate owens because of his drops. Ya he led the league in drops last year but also remember that he was playing the entire season with a broken bone in his hand. despite the drops he has still produced more than any other receiver in the last string of years.

Most importantly he works harder than anyone, and he gives 100% on every play. Hes not team destructive, hes just an idiot. I'll take it

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He works harder, he gives 100%, and Moss STILL outperforms him on a regular basis. Just think what would happen if Moss gave 100% and worked hard right?

So yeah, take Moss.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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randy ratio is best eva

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John Taylor made many huge touchdown runs because of the Jerry Rice block. How often has Randy Moss made a key block for his teammates?

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Who told you that, ESPN?

A) You dont know if Rice singlehandedly made "many huge TD runs" because of his blocks.
B) You dont know that Randy doesn't block.

Assume you are right: Bobby Wade is an awesome blocker for a WR, is he good? nope.

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I'm 63 and a native San Franciscan. Don't need ESPN. I saw those games. Rice plays hard even when the play isn't designed for him. And Rice blocks for the other receiver.

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Well I'm 24 and a native Minnesotan and the idea that Moss doesnt block is a jopje perpetuated by the same guys who think anyone plays 100% on every play. He blocks. He just doesnt get the pub for it that Hines Ward gets. And he probably isnt the best blocker in the world, but that doesnt mean he doesnt do it.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Irvin > CJ

Also if you took any of the current guys and brought them back in time say 40 years ago, obviously they school everyone. The medical and training advantages they have now are huge. So I'd expect it's normal to say that the list is heavily weighted on current guys.

However if the discussion is just relative to the people they played against, then I fully agree that this list is crap.

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I love how we have these discussions like this about football and for some reason no one ever mentions steroids. Its hilarious to me. If this were a baseball thread it would have been mentioned at least a few times, especially in posts like these ones.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Jeff Smzrydzaia

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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you can debate who is better and all that but i say what you should ask is if you were starting a franchise who would you want on your team. Order imo:
1. rice
2. owens
3. harrison
4. moss

i think alot of people underrate owens because of his drops. Ya he led the league in drops last year but also remember that he was playing the entire season with a broken bone in his hand. despite the drops he has still produced more than any other receiver in the last string of years.

Most importantly he works harder than anyone, and he gives 100% on every play. Hes not team destructive, hes just an idiot. I'll take it

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TO not team destructive LOL.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

lol at owens being anything other than 4th on a list of moss, harrison, rice, and himself

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Rice Moss Harrison TO

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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you can debate who is better and all that but i say what you should ask is if you were starting a franchise who would you want on your team. Order imo:
1. rice
2. owens
3. harrison
4. moss

i think alot of people underrate owens because of his drops. Ya he led the league in drops last year but also remember that he was playing the entire season with a broken bone in his hand. despite the drops he has still produced more than any other receiver in the last string of years.

Most importantly he works harder than anyone, and he gives 100% on every play. Hes not team destructive, hes just an idiot. I'll take it

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TO not team destructive LOL.

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What an insane statement.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

if owens had peyton manning his whole career this might not even be a discussion...harrison while amazingly consistent is slightly overrated...factoring in not disrupting the team...its definitely close between the two

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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They did it at the expense of letting wes welker catch everything underneath. That wasn't a bad decision, one huge play aside.

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I dunno, on 3rd and 8 I'd rather take my chances with Moss in single coverage 15 yards downfield than Welker abusing a linebacker underneath. Of course, that's in hindsight knowing that Welker [censored] abused us on 3rd down.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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success at KR/PR never lasts because they stop getting the ball kicked to them...people were hyping up dante hall a few years ago more then hester now and look where hes at

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Just because Hall declined doesn't mean Hester will.

1) Dante Hall is now almost 30 years old. He's not going to have the same success that he once had.

2) Once upon a time, Hall had a great 4-game stretch and then didn't score another return TD the rest of the season. Four return TDs is a good season, but not sensational. His hype is based around the fact that his 4 return TDs just so happened to be in consecutive games. If they were spread out, he would have recieved far less hype. For example, how often do we talk about Leon Washington? He's just as good as Hall.

3) Dante Hall was never the returner that Hester is. You can already make a solid argument that Hester is the best returner of all time. Hall has 12 return TDs since coming into the league in 2000. Hester has 10 in, what, 27 games. Hester will finish miles ahead of Hall.

Edit: Actually if you count the FG return, Hester has 11. And either way you slice it, his 5/6 return TDs last year is an NFL record, which he could very well break this year as he already has 5.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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randy moss is the best reciever of all-time...im not sure rice belongs in the top 5

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Have you ever seen Jerry Rice play? If you wanna argue that Moss is better, fine, But Rice not in the top 5? Really??

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Jeezus how many people got leveled by this?

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Jeff Abcdefghijklmniz--mnopqrstuv uhh vvztuvxyx...z

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http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2006...arussa_195.jpg

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Irvin > CJ

Also if you took any of the current guys and brought them back in time say 40 years ago, obviously they school everyone. The medical and training advantages they have now are huge. So I'd expect it's normal to say that the list is heavily weighted on current guys.

However if the discussion is just relative to the people they played against, then I fully agree that this list is crap.

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I love how we have these discussions like this about football and for some reason no one ever mentions steroids. Its hilarious to me. If this were a baseball thread it would have been mentioned at least a few times, especially in posts like these ones.

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You think Moss/CJ/Harrison/TO take roids ? I don't think so. The only one you could even think about accusing is TO, and given how much of a work out maniac he is, he clearly doesn't need them. You could easily be that massive when you're working out 3 hours a day.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

It's too late to edit my posts, so late me make two late changes to avoid looking like too big of an idiot.

1) Welker was abusing Joselio Hanson (mostly), not a linebacker, but my point still stands. With Dawkins doubling Moss most plays and JR Reed deep, Hanson has basically no deep help so he was playing way off Welker.

2) On to Hall, 4 return TDs is a sensational season, no idea what I was thinking when I wrote it was good but not great.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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You think Moss/CJ/Harrison/TO take roids ? I don't think so. The only one you could even think about accusing is TO, and given how much of a work out maniac he is, he clearly doesn't need them. You could easily be that massive when you're working out 3 hours a day.

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This past May I sat down next to TO in the Philly airport and I was like "this dude looks familar" without realizing who it was until later.

He walked right in front of me getting on the plane and then he was in the 5th row and I was in the 8th. (He wasn't in 1st class LOL).

He is very slender and tall. No way would I guess he weighs 220 lb or whatever. Dudes on roids have a look about them which he didn't. I'd be very surprised if he did them...also steroids are very easy to test for with a long half life. I'm sure TO has been tested before.

Also, I think wide receivers fall into a category of sports where steroids won't help most. Your muscles lose flexibility and "feel".

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Also, I think wide receivers fall into a category of sports where steroids won't help most. Your muscles lose flexibility and "feel".

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Agreed. Recievers need agility, speed, good hands and the ability to accelerate in and out of cuts. Steroids don't really help with that stuff.

Strength helps, but it's secondary.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Also, I think wide receivers fall into a category of sports where steroids won't help most. Your muscles lose flexibility and "feel".

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Agreed. Recievers need agility, speed, good hands and the ability to accelerate in and out of cuts. Steroids don't really help with that stuff.

Strength helps, but it's secondary.

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What? Don't you know how strong David Boston is? His career exploded.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Moss and Owens have always been fine when there teams have been winning, Harrison/Rice didn't have to deal with losing so it is harder to comment on there character. Remember when Rice lost his consecutive catch streak in a game the Raiders won and he pouted?
I feel this should be stickied YOU CAN'T TELL IF SOMEONE TAKES STEROIDS BY LOOKING AT THEM.
Moss>>>>>> Hester, if Hester was a better athlete he would be doing more than returning kicks and being the 4th WR.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Two quick points obviously athletes today are better than athletes years ago. But you need to compare them to people they played against. If Lyle Overbay went back in time he'd crush Babe's Ruth's records but that doesn't mean he's a better baseball player historically. As well when comparing stats you need to consider that football is far more pass oriented now so receivers have inflated numbers.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Moss and Owens have always been fine when there teams have been winning, Harrison/Rice didn't have to deal with losing so it is harder to comment on there character. Remember when Rice lost his consecutive catch streak in a game the Raiders won and he pouted?
I feel this should be stickied YOU CAN'T TELL IF SOMEONE TAKES STEROIDS BY LOOKING AT THEM.
Moss>>>>>> Hester, if Hester was a better athlete he would be doing more than returning kicks and being the 4th WR.

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Yeah, like that time Owens came off a Super Bowl losing team and demanded a new contract in training camp.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Harrison/Rice didn't have to deal with losing so it is harder to comment on there character.

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When Edge went down in 2001 the colts finished 6-10. This was exactly the kind of season that would cause Moss and TO to have a fit. Marv never said a word and finished with 109 catches for 1524 yards and 15 TDs.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

I'm going with peak Moss as #1 WR of all time

of course, his peak (for various reasons) was much shorter than Rice, so the career of Rice >>>> career of Moss

without going too much into the chicken/egg debate, Rice spent most of his career playing with 2 historically great QB's, which helped his counting stats immensely.

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

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Also, I think wide receivers fall into a category of sports where steroids won't help most. Your muscles lose flexibility and "feel".

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Agreed. Recievers need agility, speed, good hands and the ability to accelerate in and out of cuts . Steroids don't really help with that stuff.



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...

Re: Best NFL wide receivers
 

Straight line speed != the ability to make sharp cuts and run good routes != agility. But obviously they're all related.