NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

I like the check behind on flop here rather than checking behind on turn because it gets me value if villain leads turn after I check, and I don't have to worry about c/r, which isn't so great for my hand. On a wetter flop I cbet, but here I think my cbet only folds worse hands and I get no value. Standard, or do people prefer bet flop/check behind on turn.

Villain is 17/8/2 and seems competent.
UTG+1: $7.56
Hero: $68.40
SB: $49.60

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($8, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($8, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $5</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($18, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $12</font>, SB calls.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

i bet the flop, but that's because i pretty much cbet these flops almost 100% of the time. as far as whether or not to check behind the turn, it's villain dependent on what his two-streets calling range is, and how aggressive he can be with marginal hands on the river after seeing weakness on the turn.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

Maybe if it were heads up to the flop and you were looking to change it up a bit given certain circumstances or history. But 3-way to the flop, there is no way I'm checking this. It just seems like burning money to me.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

[censored], sorry. It is really headsup. UTG+1 has about $5 stack left on the flop.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

You've also got to think about meta, considering if you c-bet a lot, you've probably got to do it with the goods, too. If you put in what looks like a standard c-bet and he calls, you're probably facing a lower Q and you can extract more.

Now, in this case, obviously you extracted value because the dummy bluffed at you/bet with a lower queen (probably; obviously you didn't post the results). But, I don't think this is always the way the hand plays out. You're either going to check and let him catch up -- and you've still only got tptk, which we know isn't a monster -- or you're going to check the flop and when you finally bet, he's gonna fold anyways.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

[ QUOTE ]
[censored], sorry. It is really headsup. UTG+1 has about $5 stack left on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I should have paid attention to stack sizes. I still like a bet b/c shorty's stack off really light and it's what you would normally do if you didn't have a hand.

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

Snafu'd--my bad, i didn't include shorty's stack size in OP

[ QUOTE ]
You've also got to think about meta, considering if you c-bet a lot, you've probably got to do it with the goods, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but here is another way of looking at it, which may be wrong. I do cbet prolly 90% of the time headsup on flop, and if I had a set or pr+draw etc, I bet here to build the pot. One thing I like about checking with a hand that hits the flop and wants a medium-sized pot is that it balances the times when I check behind when I completely miss on a flop like T 8 7 with a flush draw.

I would often play this hand cbetting flop, checking turn for pot control and toinduce a river bet, and then call or valuebet river. Based on the results of this hand, I think I played it ideally, but I don't want my general approach to hands like this to be biased by the results from one hand.

If consensus is check behind here sucks, are there any decent hands you would check behind on this flop, like Q9 or JJ, or does everyone bet this flop and then evaluate checking behind on turn?

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

This flop is fine line like one out of 8 times or whatever.

i think i'd raise on the turn

Re: NL50: TPTK, check behind on flop for pot control
 

I mean, it's not like the worst line of all time, but I certainly wouldn't make it my standard operating procedure.