I BLUFF YOU
 

7.50/15 hand from awhile ago. Playing 8 handed.

Villain in this hand is a nl player. LAG in position, TAG OOP. Good 3 bet or fold style preflop. Plays too loose imo.

Some history: A short while ago I decided I wasnt getting enough action on my hands and had raised it up preflop in MP with J9s. The BB defended, the flop was all rags, and I rivered a J after firing 2 barrels (I fired the 3rd obv) and BB mucked after seeing my hand. Villain may now be aware that I'm not a PF nit.

So fast forward to this hand. I fold some more then pick up AQs UTG. I raise, and it folds to him OTB. He 3 bets, blinds fold, I call (i think i should have 4 bet fwiw).

Flop is KK7, one of my suit. I c/c.

Turn 7, giving me a flush draw. I c/r.

things to consider: what is villain's range? of that range, how much do you think I can fold out? can i fold to a 3 bet?

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

I'm not sure I like this. If you really had a king, he would expect you to have check raised the flop, right?

I don't see QQ-99 folding.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

I'm glad you posted this hand because I have trouble playing hands like this: specifically playing fl draws hu on the turn with double paired boards. I think your play puts a lot of pressure on otb. The question I have is what to do if I'm otb. Besides the obvious AK or AA type hands, what am I raising, calling or folding here?

I also apologize if it appears that I'm hijacking the thread. I really don't mean to do so.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

If he's playing LAG, and has seen you bluffing I don't think he's folding any pair 88+ or even A high. I guess to me the answer depends on whether or not he's a thinking player. Your play can look an awful lot like a slowplayed AKo to a thinking player,in which case I like it, because he will fold some hands that beat you.Otherwise, he's only going to look you up with hands beat yours/ or split if you don't hit your flush on the river.
Either way I would fold to a 3 bet.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

It is doubtful that a LAG will fold a better hand or any Ace. Also, some LAGs are capable of 3-betting with an Ace here.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is doubtful that a LAG will fold a better hand or any Ace. Also, some LAGs are capable of 3-betting with an Ace here.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point about the LAG nature of the opponent.

let me ask you another question then: if you were villain, how effective would this bluff be? (and I ask the whole forum this as well)

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

If he's really a lag, I don't like this play. He really could 3-bet you with a hand you have like 11 outs against, and I think you'd have to fold. What if he 3-bets you with QQ and you fold? That's a freaking disaster.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

If you want to bluff b/3b...
really.

Edit: I'd never fold A high here to a TAG's c/r.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

Interesting spot. Obviously the board is very scarey, probably for both of you.

I think this NL Laggy dude is the wrong player to make this play against. I do think there is a decent chance that he folds to the checkraise. But I also think there is a decent chance that he decided to re-bluff you. I have seen a young, NL player in a 4/8 LHE game go crazy with 44 on a KKxA board, putting in 4 bets. They like to bluff, and they think its really cheap to bluff in limit.

Against this NL player, I think calling down ui is the answer. Sure, you will probably lose to 88-QQ or AK most of the time. But he will have 44-66 or AT-AJ enough to be a profitable calldown.

The chance that he rebluffs is just to great to check-raise-fold here.

But I love this checkraise with FD on double-paired board against a regular limit player who is trying to play well. I have done this exact move against a just such a guy and he showed me JJ as he folded. No one bluffs in these spots in loose-passive live SSLHE, so they are willing to fold. But this NL guy probably doesn't realize that no one bluffs here.

Re: I BLUFF YOU
 

I'm grunching here, and my first reaction is that you can't fold to a three bet. I think that makes the c/r a bad idea unless you're folding a bunch of his range.

He probably isn't folding a pair here. At least I wouldn't.

EDIT: I read the replies, and if I had 88+ or an Ace in my hand this would work on my about never. Against a Tag that is. I actually found myself in a similar spot last night against a TAG. Board was QQ55 and I had 99. He c/r, I three bet, he lays down. So not only will it not work on me but I'm three barreling you.