weird spot
 

I open w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the CO and somewhat unknown 3bets otb, blinds fold and I call. I say he is somewhat unknown, but I played a few hands in the must-move and he played pretty straight forward. Cant remember him doing anything significant good or bad. Anyway on to the flop.

Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check call.

Turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

My action? Also feel free to comment on the flop play.

Re: weird spot
 

I'm afraid he checks through the turn pretty frequently so I'd donk it.

Flop is good.

Re: weird spot
 

Flop I like. He probably has a piece, won't fold, and you don't have an equity advantage.

Turn is a wierd spot because you are probably ahead and I was thinking easy check raise, but if he 3-bet's then you might be drawing to 1 out!

If you check-raise and he 3-bets, would you be able to put him on QQ or JJ? (an agro player might do this with KKc or AK no club) but I can't think of a lot of hands that 3-bet PF and then feel comfortable 3-betting after this scary turn card.

Re: weird spot
 

Is he 3-betting you with 77-99? A7-A9? other trash?

Re: weird spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he 3-bet's then you might be drawing to 1 out!

[/ QUOTE ]

who cares about might-bes you will have good equity against his 3 betting range when you get in such situations.

i would bet/call the turn, check/raising is ideal but its going to get checked through too much on such a scary board. unless you have a specific read on this particular villain to the contrary.

bet/3bet is a slight spew (is there such a thing?) i think against typical opponents, you are going to get 4 bet when beat almost always and people aren't going to be raising on that board without KT or better most likely.

Re: weird spot
 

I hate to go off on a tangent, but it would be very close to impossible to have 1 out after being 3 bet preflop. If he has QQ or JJ, we have 2!!! outs. The only one out hand he could have would be 8c9c. And we would be drawing dead to only Kc9c.

Re: weird spot
 

I'd definitely donk the turn - I think he'll check through with lots of hands, and a c/r will give him a relatively easy spot to let go of a lot of hands that you are beating. Also, I see a lot of bad players make donk bluffs when the board pairs, so he might not give you very much credit for having a real hand. If he raises the turn, I'd probably call and bet/fold a blank river.

On the flop I'd very tempted to play this really fast, but I think brick is right that c/c is going to save money when you are drawing and not let weaker hands off the hook so easily, so I like your line.

Re: weird spot
 

[ QUOTE ]

who cares about might-bes you will have good equity against his 3 betting range when you get in such situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole reason we are discussing this hand is to figure out what percent of the time those "might be's" will actually BE and what that means regarding the best way to play the hand.

I feel that a turn 3-bet means we will are drawing deading nearly dead and a fold is in order.

I feel that if the PFR'er 3-bets with a wide range then betting is more correct. If he is 3-bets with a tight range then check-raise/ fold to the 3-bet is more correct.

I know it sounds crazy to fold a 3-bet in a big pot, but I just can't see an average B&M player pulling this 3-bet with any hands which we are ahead of.

Re: weird spot
 

Pope,
I mean't that if we check-raise the turn, and get 3-bet, then we only have 2 outs. (edit: 2 outs actually because I missed the royal out!)

my mistake.

Re: weird spot
 

folding to a 3 bet with a royal flush draw, ~8 outs to the nut flush, and a varying number outs to a full house? EDIT: forgot the quads out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

not showing this hand down heads up in a limit game is the leak of leaks. you have a very good hand, good hands are hard to beat, make your opponent beat you.