Fool me once shame on you...
 

Villain is redargoe. I know he likes to check raise rivers, but don't know his bluffing frequency in spots like these. Whats my river plan here? Turn check is very default for me for pot control, I think some of you are going to hate it.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($4089)
CO ($4839)
Button ($400)
SB ($2010)
BB ($273.50)
UTG ($11313.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $80</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $260</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls $180.

Flop: ($550) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $420</font>, UTG calls $420.

Turn: ($1390) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1390) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, hero?

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

Note: We are 200bbs deep here.

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

I'd bet/fold here.

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

I would have played this hand differently, so not sure about my action on the turn if I were in your spot, but I really dont like giving a free card on that turn, not so much b/c I dont exercise pot control (i do), but b/c you can get so much value out of that card from a lot of your opponents range. Makes any hand w/ a T an OESD, likely an OESD + pair, pair + flush draw, and the only way I'm checking here is if my opponent is a nit, I love to bet that turn against players who like to get aggressive on the turn w/ stacks like this, especially on that board. So yeah, while betting the turn can lead to difficult decisions, you can also get a lot of value from a wide range of hands/players.

Is $260 standard here pre? As in, standard for online? With these stacks in a live game I prefer to make it $320-$340, and at 200+ BB's I will CC in your spot sometimes (not my default play by any means, but happens in this spot at a higher frequency with these stacks and that being in EP), would probably do it more often in an online game in this spot with how popular squeezing seems to have become. I digress.

I really dont like your flop bet size, this is a spot where a PSB or near-PSB needs to be standard for you imo. Kind of off topic, but I was discussing w/ another player (imo a very strong NLHE player) about how much more difficult it can be in the long run to play against a player who bets the pot, i.e., take a decent player who often bets 1/2 to 1/3 the pot, and if he just changes his bet sizing to more frequently betting near-PSB's and PSB's, he's all the sudden more difficult to play against. Obviously not rocket science here, but seems to be overlooked by many players, including winning players.

Before I respond to the river question I really need to know what kind of hands redargoe check raises with here, i.e., AQ? KQ? JT? TT? Air? Some idea to his river check-raise bluff frequency/range would be nice, and since I have no idea who redargoe is this question might seem crazy, but is he the kind of player who would think he was check raising KK for value here? (i'm not inferring he has KK by any means, it's just a question aimed at gauging his style that has nothing to do w/ his range here).

I'm interested in what your answers are to the above.



-Tex


edit: if you or anyone else have a HH where he c/r bluffs the river or c/r for value that would be nice.

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

holy christ bet the turn

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

[ QUOTE ]
holy christ bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you stack off on turn?

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

i dont hate a turn check this deep. i would do it some % of the time for sure. how much so depends on villian, and i dont know this one well.

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

I think betting the turn lets your opponent play very well vs. your hand if he is tight and tricky. If he's a station obviously bet. The river I go 900 and fold to a raise.

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont hate a turn check this deep. i would do it some % of the time for sure. how much so depends on villian, and i dont know this one well.

[/ QUOTE ]

what else is there to say?

Re: Fool me once shame on you...
 

betcall?

i like turn check this deep if he likes to c/r.