Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

If you are bringing in with JJ[2] The book "How to beat low-limit stud poker" says you should complete with a full bet instead of just bringing in the minimum to instantly get people off their drawing hands or bad hands on 3rd. What do you think about this?

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

That's the Kammen book, right? It's not very good in my less-than-humble opinion.

There are some intelligent people who know something about poker who will tell you that you should never bring it in for a full bet. This is extreme, but telling. I personally will bring it in full only rarely. The most common scenario is if I have a big pocket pair and one of my trip cards is gone.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

The problem with doing this is that when you get raised, it will almost always be by a better hand than yours but then you feel compelled to see 5th because of the pot size and you have paid more to get there.

I will sometimes bring in full when the table is a bunch of high VPIP calling stations and I have a good 3-flush as you can build yourself a huge pot. If i have a good buried pair I would rather just bring-in and hope to be able to c/r on 4th and thin the field.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

I tend to complete bringing it in if my concealed pair is higher than any of the doorcards of my opponents.

When I am in the field and someone else brings it in for the complete bet, I think about who the player is and why they are completing. I see many players steaming who complete when they bring it in. This is a table image play in my opinion.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

if someone can put you accurately on a pair in the hole you are toast as they get to play their hand almost perfectly.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

But if I hit the Jack, it is usually them that are toast now. No? I feel the power of having a premium concealed pair pays off in the long run completing with a bring in and worst comes to worst you more than likely get a free card on 4th and can ditch 5th if you don't improve no?

This is all assuming your concealed pair is higher than most of the door cards except maybe one or two.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
But if I hit the Jack, it is usually them that are toast now. No?

[/ QUOTE ]Not really. They're only going to put in a lot of action if they can beat a big pair, and if you play back they're only going to put in a lot of action if they can beat an improved big pair.

And mostly you're going to be toasted by the fact that they simply can fold a lot of extra hands when you bring-in big.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel the power of having a premium concealed pair[ QUOTE ]
It's not concealed if you bring-in big only with that sort of hand. And if you start doing that with bad hands you're screwed putting in a ton of action with bad hands. If you start bringing in big with all sorts of hands you're screwed when you bring-in small since it's an easy raise with 100% of the hands from steal position.

Bringing in big really only is a good idea when there's exceptionally bad players in the game. I'm pretty sure everyone would be better off by eliminating the option completely and start doing "autopost bring-in" like blinds are autoposted in hold'em.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

Ray Zee makes a good point about giving away your hand.

Re: Stud Question bringing in with a concealed pocket pair
 

"if someone can put you accurately on a pair in the hole you are toast as they get to play their hand almost perfectly."

And without a gun too