really basic bvb
 

Villain is a 35/25 LAGTAG. Earlier he c/red me on the turn with a draw and I called down w AK and won. Any merit to just calling here?

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero

Re: really basic bvb
 

According to your read your hand has showdown value, as K-high is ahead of a good portion of his range here. And since you don't want to get 3-bet when you might be behind and drawing, I think a passive line is best here. Call call call. Obviously raise any K or diamond.

Re: really basic bvb
 

i'd say that raising now is pretty close to calling and raising the turn.

i think an important variable to consider in making this decision is your estimate of how likely he will be to fold A high and good K high in both lines.

if you think the probabilities are roughly the same i say raise now - the semibluff will be cheaper and implied odds are greater. if they are very different then maybe it's better to raise the turn.

based on the info you gave in the OP i'd go with raising now.

EDIT: i also think that a weak K high is a bit too weak to use the call call call line.

Re: really basic bvb
 

Let me be the first to advocate the standard/obvious play of raising the flop. You have a monster and even if he doesn't fold K8 now, he probably will when a 6, 7, or J come on the turn.

Waiting til the turn to raise a good hand is generally only useful to protect/exploit against constant turn-barelling when you float the flop. In that case you should choose hands like A3 or Q2 imo. K-hi flush draw is just too dynamic of a hand to do anything but play a big pot.

Obviously this is exploitable but sample sizes are too small to stress about it.

Re: really basic bvb
 

I like raising the flop here so that I don't have to face calling a river bet with a weak King high. If SB calls the turn bet, you can check behind on the river. Otherwise he may 3 barrel it. By raising the flop you could potentially fold a better hand on the turn, or perhaps the river if you decide to bluff.

Re: really basic bvb
 

I'm torn on this one, but what I've finally decided goes something like this: (1) Villain's range isn't very far removed from any two cards, and (2) a semi-bluffy player is going to suspect that you're semi-bluffing if you pop the flop or turn on this board, because, well, people have some tendency to expect other players to play like they do.

Therefore, PJ's call, call, call line has a lot of merit in this small pot, I think, versus what could very well be a 6-outer. I don't think it's so much to avoid getting 3-bet, though (although getting 3-bet by a worse flush draw or an OESD would suck unless we're still calling down UI) but more to encourage 98o to keep firing.

But I don't hate a flop or turn raise either. I mean, we should have a nice equity advantage on the flop versus Villain's range. But I'm wondering how much folding equity we really have, and also how often he'll even have a hand we want him to fold. I doubt he's folding a pair, so a raise is really aimed at unpaired Ax and Kx, and that may not make up enough of Villain's range for us to benefit greatly from folding equity (compared to the benefits of our other options), particularly if he's not always folding the Ax.

Then again, Ax and Kx together make up about 30 percent of the hands a player gets dealt, so like I said at the outset, I'm torn.

Re: really basic bvb
 

There are added benefits, if this goes to showdown, of fast-playing this draw...

Re: really basic bvb
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd say that raising now is pretty close to calling and raising the turn.

i think an important variable to consider in making this decision is your estimate of how likely he will be to fold A high and good K high in both lines.

if you think the probabilities are roughly the same i say raise now - the semibluff will be cheaper and implied odds are greater. if they are very different then maybe it's better to raise the turn.

based on the info you gave in the OP i'd go with raising now.

EDIT: i also think that a weak K high is a bit too weak to use the call call call line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this post and from what I've been reading in stox' book I think he would agree that raising here is best for these reasons

Re: really basic bvb
 

I call and raise this turn either for value if we hit any 5k or diamond or on a semibluff.

Re: really basic bvb
 

I like giving villain the opportunity to fold his six outer before seeing the river, so I raise the flop or the turn. I prefer on the flop, since the thought of putting three bets in on the turn makes me ill.