Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

I wish they would just raise 3rd.

Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (2.30 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.65 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (5.65 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (8.65 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (10.65 BB)


<font color="white">*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.65 | Rake $0.50
Seat 2: showed [9d Kc 2d 8d As Td 4d] and won ($10.15) with Lo: 9,8,4,2,A

Seat 5: mucked [Qc Ah 6s 7h 8c 7c Tc]

Seat 8: folded on the River</font>

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

Just fold 4th dude. You don't have to call

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just fold 4th dude. You don't have to call

[/ QUOTE ]

I know! I am weak and beset by the temptations of the devil! Besides, I had SUCH better draw than they did and all those small cards were still out and they were playing absolute craaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

Just take notes on them and seek them out later. If your cards run well you'll stack them in no time.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

OK, I'm weak too, but fold 6th.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'm weak too, but fold 6th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm... what?

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

versus some opponents calling 4th is ok.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

There is no point in playing the hand when you are at best a small dog on 3rd and the same on 4th. I don't play these stakes, but I would autofold both streets.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is no point in playing the hand when you are at best a small dog on 3rd and the same on 4th. I don't play these stakes, but I would autofold both streets.

[/ QUOTE ]
At these stakes there's a forced bring-in for the highest door card on 3rd st, and if no one else completes you get to see 4th st for free! Maybe they let you fold instead at the stakes you play, and that's how you are crushing them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is no point in playing the hand when you are at best a small dog on 3rd and the same on 4th. I don't play these stakes, but I would autofold both streets.

[/ QUOTE ] Of course, I couldn't fold 3rd, but I get what you're saying. Here's where we stood on 4th:

Seat 2: 9K28
Seat 5: QA67
Hero: 56QA

I know the argument is that I couldn't know that, but in this game, very commonly, they call with 2 decent cards and a brick and raise with 3 decent cards. "Decent" often means ten or better. I figured us all for essentially equal hands on 4th.

That's why I wish they would learn to raise 3rd. In the games you play, only one guy guy would have raised and the BI would have folded. As I would have here.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no point in playing the hand when you are at best a small dog on 3rd and the same on 4th. I don't play these stakes, but I would autofold both streets.

[/ QUOTE ] Of course, I couldn't fold 3rd, but I get what you're saying. Here's where we stood on 4th:

Seat 2: 7628
Seat 5: 8A67
Hero: 56QA

I know the argument is that I couldn't know that, but in this game, very commonly, they call with 2 decent cards and a brick and raise with 3 decent cards. "Decent" often means ten or better. I figured us all for essentially equal hands on 4th.

That's why I wish they would learn to raise 3rd. In the games you play, only one guy guy would have raised and the BI would have folded. As I would have here.

[/ QUOTE ]


Fold 4th.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

Hey, give the guy credit for calling 4th with the best hand. He was at the table, seeing the absolute crap that these guys play. Folding 4th would have cost him some Sklansky bucks.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folding 4th would have cost him some Sklansky bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]What are Sklansky bucks? Since I lost real ones, I'd like to have some other kind if they are due me!

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
What are Sklansky bucks? Since I lost real ones, I'd like to have some other kind if they are due me!

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure someone else can give you a better definition, but Sklansky bucks are the theoretical amount of $ you can expect to win with a certain play. It represents an average over a large number of trials tho, so you can wind up losing a lot of money on one hand when you'd expect to actually win in the long run by doing the same thing.

As for this hand, if you're good at reading your opponents then a lot of times you have to go with your reads. Otherwise you're too easy to bluff and become easy to read yourself. Giving loose/bad players too much credit for a good hand can be just as costly as giving solid players too little credit.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
As for this hand, if you're good at reading your opponents then a lot of times you have to go with your reads. Otherwise you're too easy to bluff and become easy to read yourself. Giving loose/bad players too much credit for a good hand can be just as costly as giving solid players too little credit.

[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree and rarely do this, especially against two players. And only if I have a really good read - I was as close to certain as one can be without actually seeing the cards that I had the best hand here or a hand so close to best as to be a virtual tie. I don't generally play this way. I posted it for entertainment and wondering if everyone calls 6th - and also thought you'd appreciate it after the "strategy at .50/1" posts in the other thread.

Here's a fun fact, I ran the 4th street hands through the simulator along with the dead cards:

9K28 = 14.34%
QA67 = 43.11%
56QA = 42.55%

And, as we know, the 14% won! He owes us both some Sklansky bucks!

BTW, I did my November stats (by hand but I used a calculator) and I made 4.3 bb per hour on average. Is that good? Average? Crummy? I took your advice from another thread about limiting variance (I know, I know, this hand doesn't reflect it!) and I think it helped steady down my game quite a bit. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

Sklansky bucks are a measure of how much equity you gain or lose with your action, assuming that you could see your opponents' cards.

In this case, if you could see your opponents' cards on 4th street, you'd never have folded, and folding would have given up EV relative to calling.

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'm weak too, but fold 6th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm... what?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Just fold 4th dude. You don't have to call



I know! I am weak and beset by the temptations of the devil!

[/ QUOTE ]

that

Re: Razz: .50/1 daily special
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Just fold 4th dude. You don't have to call

I know! I am weak and beset by the temptations of the devil!

[/ QUOTE ]

that

[/ QUOTE ]

But I was joking - I'm quite capable of folding all kinds of marginal stuff and often do. Here, it was reasonable in terms of several factors: mostly my reads on my opponents and the live cards. Let's turn it around - if we'd all started with our small cards and all bricked 4th and they had bet/called, so, of course, would I.

The biggest factor mitigating against calling was the three opponents. And here was my mistake: I should have raised 4th.