English-only policy
 

http://www.politicaldogs.org/2007/04...glish-only.htm

If the salvation army loses, what's next?
Will poker be required to allow players to speak
Vietnamese at the table?

Re: English-only policy
 

Tax dollars hard at work... sigh.

Re: English-only policy
 

“Under EEOC’s guidelines, an English-only rule violates the law unless the employer can provide a legitimate business justification for forcing employees to stop speaking their native language,”� said Estela Díz, trial attorney for the EEOC’s New York District Office. “The Salvation Army presented no such justification.”�

Requiring employees to speak English where no business necessity exists constitutes national origin discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The EEOC filed suit after first attempting to reach a voluntary settlement.

Re: English-only policy
 

It's a bit hard to argue that "no business necessity exists" though, because being able to communicate, in general, is a business necessity.

Re: English-only policy
 

The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

Re: English-only policy
 

and the pundits wonder why american public is mad about illegal immigration when everyday people are explicitly told they need to be bilingual (speak spanish) in order to get a good job, keep a good job, move up the ladder, etc.

Re: English-only policy
 

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and the pundits wonder why american public is mad about illegal immigration when everyday people are explicitly told they need to be bilingual (speak spanish) in order to get a good job, keep a good job, move up the ladder, etc.

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

Re: English-only policy
 

I've never had a problem in the US without speaking a word of Spanish. That said, more Americans should probably learn to speak one or two additional languages.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

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You've never heard of it? It's almost required to know Spanish to get into Med school here in Texas. A lot of jobs have someone who knows Spanish given an advantage over someone who doesn't if they have to deal with customers. You must live north of the Mason Dixon line.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

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You've never heard of it? It's almost required to know Spanish to get into Med school here in Texas. A lot of jobs have someone who knows Spanish given an advantage over someone who doesn't if they have to deal with customers. You must live north of the Mason Dixon line.

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I live in NY now but I grew up in Texas. Right after I typed that I thought about doctors. Most of my friends now work in finance or are in school and I play poker so I know I don't have the greatest sample. I still think that it is something that people like Rush get irate about but most normal people don't really care.

I have met a few Post Docs from China that where just learning english when they got their job but they are so talented that their really could be no englsh speakers that can do what they are doing.

Re: English-only policy
 

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You've never heard of it? It's almost required to know Spanish to get into Med school here in Texas. A lot of jobs have someone who knows Spanish given an advantage over someone who doesn't if they have to deal with customers. You must live north of the Mason Dixon line.

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uh oh tom, get ready for personal attack. someting like, hey, what you didn't into school cause u too dumb?

honestly i think the ridicule must be being taught officially or unofficially cause so many people use it.

Re: English-only policy
 

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You've never heard of it? It's almost required to know Spanish to get into Med school here in Texas. A lot of jobs have someone who knows Spanish given an advantage over someone who doesn't if they have to deal with customers. You must live north of the Mason Dixon line.

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uh oh tom, get ready for personal attack. someting like, hey, what you didn't into school cause u too dumb?

honestly i think the ridicule must be being taught officially or unofficially cause so many people use it.

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Good call.

Re: English-only policy
 

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I still think that it is something that people like Rush get irate about but most normal people don't really care.

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mostly lower middle class who get low city jobs and and private sector operator call center customer service, a whole bunch of stuff.

in other words the jobs that most people have.

Re: English-only policy
 

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and the pundits wonder why american public is mad about illegal immigration when everyday people are explicitly told they need to be bilingual (speak spanish) in order to get a good job, keep a good job, move up the ladder, etc.

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Society drives business...not the other way around. Pundits are idiots that create problems so they have something to complain about.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

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I consider myself to be a "professional" and my superiors recently posted a memo requiring all personnel working in an "Enforcement" capacity to complete the state's mandatory "Tactical Spanish Communication" course.

Re: English-only policy
 

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I still think that it is something that people like Rush get irate about but most normal people don't really care.

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mostly lower middle class who get low city jobs and and private sector operator call center customer service, a whole bunch of stuff.

in other words the jobs that most people have.

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Thats a good point. I guess that is one of the bad things about having a job which doesn't require special training or education. You also will get fired much quickly for things like being chronically ill as compared to highly trained professionals. Do you think their should be laws that don't allow employers to discriminate on the basis of knowing spanish? Seems ridiculous to me.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

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I consider myself to be a "professional" and my superiors recently posted a memo requiring all personnel working in an "Enforcement" capacity to complete the state's mandatory "Tactical Spanish Communication" course.

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Yeah, i mean this seems totally reasonable. Its not like people are loosing their jobs because they didn't get the symbolism in a passage of Don Quixote. Do you think that having this training will make you better at your job?

Re: English-only policy
 

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You've never heard of it? It's almost required to know Spanish to get into Med school here in Texas. A lot of jobs have someone who knows Spanish given an advantage over someone who doesn't if they have to deal with customers. You must live north of the Mason Dixon line.

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uh oh tom, get ready for personal attack. someting like, hey, what you didn't into school cause u too dumb?

honestly i think the ridicule must be being taught officially or unofficially cause so many people use it.

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Yeah, it might happen, but whatever. I didn't go the med school route, but I know a few friends who did. I don't need to worry about Spanish being a software engineer (unless I want to listen in to the conversations of a bunch of my coworkers).

Employers requiring workers to speak Spanish is fine with me, as is requiring people to speak English. I know we have a requirement for our foreign employees to speak English who have to work with the rest of the company.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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They're wrong in the sense that it's a dumb policy, but they're right in the sense that it's their business if they want to institute dumb policies.

Re: English-only policy
 

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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They're wrong in the sense that it's a dumb policy, but they're right in the sense that it's their business if they want to institute dumb policies.

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I don't think it's a dumb policy. It must be frustrating trying to explain things to these employees. Probably need to find a Spanish speaker whenever you need to communicate with them.
Obviously this law disagrees with me.

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Requiring employees to speak English where no business necessity exists constitutes national origin discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The EEOC filed suit after first attempting to reach a voluntary settlement.

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Who gets to decide whether knowing English is a business necessity?

Re: English-only policy
 

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Who gets to decide whether knowing English is a business necessity?

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The courts, assuming the EEOC has determined that it has a reasonable chance of prevailing in its opinion that it isnt.

Re: English-only policy
 

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Who gets to decide whether knowing English is a business necessity?

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[censored] I knew I was supposed to be doing something

Re: English-only policy
 

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Passed over for that manager spot at Taco Bell?

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you don't see the double standard? maybe it's like at uni where only whites can be racist, by definition.

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I have never heard of any professional being told they needed to learn Spanish. Not sure what you mean by double standard. I am cool with employers requiring whatever language skills they want whether it be English or anything else they think the job requires.

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I consider myself to be a "professional" and my superiors recently posted a memo requiring all personnel working in an "Enforcement" capacity to complete the state's mandatory "Tactical Spanish Communication" course.

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Yeah, i mean this seems totally reasonable. Its not like people are loosing their jobs because they didn't get the symbolism in a passage of Don Quixote. Do you think that having this training will make you better at your job?

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I've got two more Saturdays to go before I recieve the certification, and the language I've learned so far is all very basic:

"Parada"
"Móntese el Suelo"
"No Mueva"
"Usted está detenido"
and
"Marihuana"
"Cocaína"
"Armas"
Etc.

I'm not going to be fluent by any stretch of the imagination, but I do know enough phrases.

My problem is with the "mandatory" part of it. I certainly have no problem with those who've freely taken the courses being looked upon highly when a promotion comes up, as speaking Spanish is a skill, just as taking additional law courses, combat courses, or fitness courses.

As to the OP, I also believe that a business is certainly entitled to require all employees to speak English. Let's not forget, English is, by far, the most commonly spoken language in America.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

Re: English-only policy
 

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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If the people sort clothes and have been working there for a while, it seems clear that they are probably competent at working their job. However, I clearly don't believe it is "unreasonable" at all, which is why I don't support the use of my money to take them to court.

Re: English-only policy
 

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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If the people sort clothes and have been working there for a while, it seems clear that they are probably competent at working their job. However, I clearly don't believe it is "unreasonable" at all, which is why I don't support the use of my money to take them to court.

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I could see a situation where maybe there was a bilingual person who had the same job so he could tell the person that didn't speak english and if the bilingual guy quit the other guy would be unseless. If i were the boss I would try really hard not to fire the guy but I don't think they should have to by law.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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What do you think the official language of the US is?

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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The USA has no official language.

edit: I am slow

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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What do you think the official language of the US is?

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Regardless of that, I don't see how any sane person can honestly disagree that the vast majority of American citizens speak English as a first language, therefore, it is in a businesses best interest to have employees who can communicate in English.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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What do you think the official language of the US is?

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this is just nit-picking. no, we have no official language, but basically all of our citizens speak english.

edit: are you saying immigrants shouldn't have to learn english b/c it's not the official us language?

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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What do you think the official language of the US is?

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Regardless of that, I don't see how any sane person can honestly disagree that the vast majority of American citizens speak English as a first language, therefore, it is in a businesses best interest to have employees who can communicate in English.



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"the vast majority of american citizens" don't directly interact with most employees, so I don't see what difference it makes what language they speak.

That said, I don't really have any interest in telling a business owner what criteria he needs or does not need to use in making his hiring decisions. If a guy only wants to hire english speakers, that's fine with me.

Re: English-only policy
 

The title of this thread is misleading. There is no english-only policy that I know of (this would mean that spanish is forbidden). Just a policy that empolyees be able to speek english (not at all unreasonable IMO).

Re: English-only policy
 

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edit: are you saying immigrants shouldn't have to learn english b/c it's not the official us language?

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Imigrants sholud not be required to learn english. Also employers should not have to hire (or continue to employ) those that don't speak english. Everyone should be allowed to do what they want.

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"the vast majority of american citizens" don't directly interact with most employees, so I don't see what difference it makes what language they speak.

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So you're of the opinion that most of the American work force doesn't speak English? funny.

I don't know what it is you do for a living, but most of the rest of Americans are American employees. I don't know about you, but I prefer to be able to communicate with my co-workers freely.

Re: English-only policy
 

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The two employees, who were clothes sorters, had been working at the Salvation Army for about five years before the Salvation Army decided to enforce their English language rule. One would think the Salvation Army would have a hard time proving that they weren't able to communicate with them if they had already been kept on for five years.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_505139.html

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I'm not saying the Salvation army is right, but it's still ridiculous.

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why do you think they are wrong? how is it unreasonable to expect a worker to speak the official language of the country in which they live?

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The USA has no official language.

edit: I am slow

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But English IS the official language of Massachusetts.

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edit: are you saying immigrants shouldn't have to learn english b/c it's not the official us language?

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Imigrants should not be required to learn english. Also employers should not have to hire (or continue to employ) those that don't speak english. Everyone should be allowed to do what they want.

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why not?

if they shouldn't be required to learn english, they shouldn't expect to be able to function in a country without learning the language spoken by all of its citizens.

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"the vast majority of american citizens" don't directly interact with most employees, so I don't see what difference it makes what language they speak.

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So you're of the opinion that most of the American work force doesn't speak English? funny.

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Read again.