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-   -   ipoker bonuses vs. the rest (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=552265)

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 07:30 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
u r hard.

name a dealt room where its harder to clear bonuses than ongame.



or llook k at it this way why is it that rooms go from dealt to contribution, not the other way aound.

it wouldnt surprise me to see all rooms go to contribution method. if full tilt did i bet cake would too.

[/ QUOTE ]
At my game/limits? All but Crypto.

Now, let me explain...I don't think I was doing a good job last time.

I conceded that if the bonuses at two different sites were identical in every way except that one was dealt and one was contributed, then of course the dealt bonus would be better for any decent player.

The next point I tried to make was the following. If, for a momemt, one were to remove the dealt/contributed factor, OnGame is easily the best clearing bonus at my game/stakes. Since I play SH FL, and OnGame has 5-handed SH tables, contributed vs dealt hurts me less. Even taking into account that it is contributed, for me the OnGame bonus is only surpassed by Crypto. For others, for example FR or NL players, contributed is a much bigger factor, and then maybe OnGame isn't as good.

What I was trying to do was simply disprove your assertion that dealt bonuses are better than contributed, no matter what. In general they are, but that depends on the terms. Let me use a ridiculous example - what if one site were to give back the equivalent of $0.10 for every $1 rake for any hands you were dealt in, and another were to give $100 for every $1 rake for any hands you contributed to...which site would you play at? Extreme example, of course...but I think it illustrates my point, which is this:

Contributed vs dealt is an important component of a bonus, but not the only one. Also, it's importance will vary from player to player, depending on what they play.

bkkdude 11-28-2007 07:56 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
i know a guy like you who tries to give non real world examples to prove yr point.

full tilt and cake have dealt, ongame has contribution. please use their rates to convince me or others that they would be better off at ongame re bonus and rkbck.

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 08:02 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
i know a guy like you who tries to give non real world examples to prove yr point.

full tilt and cake have dealt, ongame has contribution. please use their rates to convince me or others that they would be better off at ongame re bonus and rkbck.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. I don't know much about your game/stakes (IE not just what they are, but how they play - pot sizes, etc), nor how you play, so I wouldn't be qualified to do so. I already posted my own numbers for Cake vs OnGame...OnGame clears almost twice as fast for me. FT is worse. For me, OnGame is best. Maybe it isn't for you. All I have been trying to get from you all this time is a concession that even if OnGame isn't the best bonus for you, it might be for other people.

bkkdude 11-28-2007 11:38 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
hey mr this.

if you really want to clear [censored] fast learn plo high and low 8 or better.

i just checked bw clear rates. hmmm nl .25 .50 ongme 5x bonus clears at 1.34 hr full ring. cake clears at 1.27 hour.

so to clear 100$ at each should take similiar amount of hours.

yet it takes me 4 times as long at ongame than at cake. somethin just doesnt add up.

cleareance rates at bw just like 2+2 =7.

bw good for informing players of reloads.red star got one now.

bkkdude 11-28-2007 02:23 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
u play mostly 2-4........lol.

let me see. $8 an hour u need 56 points at ongame.

as i suspected at that level pots rarely get to max rake level.

pots do get to $20 average. so to get 56 points u have to be in 56 pots per hour .

man u must put into pot 80% of the time..........lol.

u want me to believe u clear $8 bomus at ongame at least say u play 10-20 or higher.............lol.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-28-2007 05:07 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
The OP wanted to compare iPoker bonuses to others. I made the point that one of the best iPoker bonuses(Noble) clears at the same rate per dollar for me at PLO50 (PLO is my only game atm) as a 9x OnGame bonus at FR. I vpip about 3 times a round + two blinds means I contribute to about half the pots.

From your last post BKK one can only surmise you play one table and play like a nit on that table.

The clearance rates on BW can't be accurate because they don't know precisely what pot sizes you'll get, and from my experience PLO generates higher pots than NLHE at the same blind levels.

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 05:42 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
u play mostly 2-4........lol.

let me see. $8 an hour u need 56 points at ongame.

as i suspected at that level pots rarely get to max rake level.

pots do get to $20 average. so to get 56 points u have to be in 56 pots per hour .

man u must put into pot 80% of the time..........lol.

u want me to believe u clear $8 bomus at ongame at least say u play 10-20 or higher.............lol.

[/ QUOTE ]
You think I have nothing better to do than come on here and lie about how much bonus I clear at OnGame?

If you're going to come on here and argue with someone about how bonus clears, here's a thought - argue either fom experience, or have some calculations to back up your argument.

You don't play what I play, so you don't have the experience.

You also can't do the calculations.

$20 pot? You apparently went to BW, maybe you should have read the bonus clearing notes. You get 0.10 points for every $0.10 that is raked. So basically every time someone sees a flop at 2/4, they will get at least partial points. Whether you want to believe it or not, my numbers come out something like this:

1/2: 25-30 pts/hr
2/4: 50-60 pts/hr
3/6: 75-85 pts/hr

These numbers will vary depending on the players you play with. I tend to table select fairly carefully. So believe what you like, when I play 2/4 I usually clear about $8/hr.

Oh...and my VPIP is about 28.

Audi 11-28-2007 05:56 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh...and my VPIP is about 28.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nit. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

My 2/4 and 3/6 rates are pretty close to those you give Bobo, a shade higher if anything....I play SH mostly.

To the OP I think VC poker has just about the best loyalty/signup deals going on the Ipoker network, at least according to them anyway: http://www.vcpoker.com/promotions/fa...uses/index.htm

bkkdude 11-29-2007 05:32 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
at 2-4.

to get 60 points an hour at ongame you have to be in 20 pots an hour at maximum rake level. say 70 games an hour at yr vpip u play 20 hands , u telling me all yr hand reach max rake. okie dokie...........lol.

can a mathmatical professor check my calcs and tell me if im off. i could be, as im not perfect.

i watched a few 2-4 games and rarely do pots get to thatlevel.

ever hear about the beardstown ladies, made famous by their supposed superior investing acumen in usa stock market. they said they achieved eye popping stock market return and evn wrote best selling book, i think. well someone actually ran thru their numbers and it was found they performed worst than the stock market average. which made sense as they were buying only stocks everybody else was buying. ant they werent great mkt timers either. just a bunch of misinformed grannies..........lol

ps. mr this.

is 50% vpip acceptable if one is trying not to lose money playing. its great for bonus clearing......lol.

and y r u clearing 9x ongame bonuse dont they have lots of 7x bonuses.

bkkdude 11-29-2007 06:09 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
hmmm

ok bobo u win. i just thought of one case where contribution is better for player. if said player has vpip in excess of 5o%.........lol.

Bobo Fett 11-29-2007 07:15 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Sigh. I don't know why I continue to bother, since you seem to have some need to believe I am lying, when clearly you have no idea what you're talking about in any of your figures.

First of all...70 hands/hour? At 5-max?? There's my first "......lol". Average is just shy of 110.

I have no clue where you get your idea that I would need every hand to meet max rate. Even if you take into account my correction of your hands/hour figure, I guess you would assume I need about 60-70% hands at max rake? There's my second ".....lol". I took a recent session and did some calculations for you:

70 minute session.
104 hands played (slow session, that's only 89 hands/hour).
26.92% VP$IP.
67.9 points collected - that's 58.2/hour, bonus collected $8.31/hr.
$23.65 average pot size.
Number of hands that reached max rake of $3? FOUR. I only had money in THREE of them.

I was tempted to leave it at that and wait for your next post where you basically ".....lol" at everything again, but instead I'll explain where I think you must be going wrong.

Do you know what VP$IP stands for? Voluntarily Put $ In Pot. Note the word in bold. I am playing 5-max. I have money in 40% of the pots even if I fold every hand pre-flop, which would give me a VP$IP of ZERO. In the session detailed above, even though I had a VPIP of under 27%, I had money in 54/105 hands. 67.9/54 = $1.26 average rake, $25.20 average pot.

In conclusion: ......lol

bkkdude 11-29-2007 08:24 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
actually i dont know y u bother either.

im just havin fun.

however i do believe its easier to clear at dealt rooms for most.(me).

sorry if i insulted u. u do seem to be a serious kind of person.

cheers!

i just know i clear over 1k bonuses at cryptos easily and way less at ongame in the same amount of hand s played.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-29-2007 08:28 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
hmmm

ok bobo u win.

[/ QUOTE ]
Edit*
Thank you BKK for bringing Crypto bonuses to my attention, I had previously glanced over them and missed how good they were.

Thank you also for providing me with some good laughs at your ability to comprehend what you read, and put forth a compelling argument to prove your theory.

bkkdude 11-29-2007 08:34 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
no problemo sir.

problem at crypto for u is very few plo at micro levels.

t atain the 1 k bonues at crypto u need to learn plo hi and low. during prime time one can multi 7 games, usually 6 hi lo ones and one high only or 5 hi lo ones and 2 hi only.

Bobo Fett 12-01-2007 06:29 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
LOL not that serious...you just refused to believe me, so I felt compelled to provide the proof and shut down your "....lol"s for a while. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I agree on Cryptos. Even I make a little more in bonus + rakeback at Crypto than OnGame, but it's not enough to make up for my difference in winrate (or lossrate at Crypto lol). For others, especially FR players, the difference would be more substanital.

bkkdude 12-01-2007 08:44 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
now u say u better off at crypto re bonus and rkbk.

please do xplain.

Bobo Fett 12-01-2007 02:59 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
now u say u better off at crypto re bonus and rkbk.

please do xplain.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean by "now". Do you even read my posts? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've always said that Crypto bonus + RB is a little better than OnGame at my limits, but the player selection is so much better at OnGame, it easily makes up for this difference and then some.

bkkdude 12-02-2007 03:06 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
wot?

im the one going on about dealt being better than contributed.

now you saying you agree with me.

Bobo Fett 12-02-2007 04:47 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
wot?

im the one going on about dealt being better than contributed.

now you saying you agree with me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. Please tell me you're joking.

I've never stated that contributed was better than dealt, or vice versa, without qualification. IT DEPENDS.


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