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-   -   ipoker bonuses vs. the rest (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=552265)

TopSpartan 11-22-2007 02:22 PM

ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Hi, I would be grateful if anyone with a bit of experience of working bonuses off could point me in the right direction. I am from the UK and built my bankroll playing PLO8b at Party and then worked off the sign up bonsus at Full Tilt.

I stumbled onto the ipoker network through a blog I read. So Iíve started to work my way from skin to skin, they all vary slightly in what they offer, but Iím very happy with the sign up bonus and some other bonuses they throw in along the way. The best thing is that I earn points on every raked hand in which I am dealt cards, this doesnít penalise me for playing tight. The main problem is lack of games, but that is a problem with PLO8b at any site outside of Poker Stars or Full Tilt.

I was thinking of taking another slice of my bankroll and using it to work off sign up bonuses on other networks. So I would be effectively multi tabling across networks. I have checked out microgaming (32 Red) and ongame (Mansion) , both sites offer sign up bonuses but only award points to those players who contribute to a raked hand.

So my question is, would it be cost effective for me to try to work off the full bonuses considering realistically I will only be able to play 1x $100 & 1x $200 at a time for approx 25 hours a week? Maths is not my strong point but my gut feeling is probably not. I am happy with the size of my bankroll and see sign up bonuses as the equivalent of a short term rake reduction. Should I at this point be content with the ipoker bonuses and look to sites that offer rake back as my next step?

guillaumezur 11-22-2007 03:11 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
lol ;i am a plo8 player too and was in the same situation last year with lack of traffic in this game , so i mademy way whoring site to site

shot me a pm , i ll tell u which site u can find action on omaha high low and to fin

u are true in one thing, except pokerstars and full tilt this is not often u find a site when u can multitable

thisnamedoesntfi 11-22-2007 05:09 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Do some bonuses through PSO and Savvy, they offer great value. As far as networks OnGame have very good bonuses, and although you need to contribute to the pot, are still easy to clear, particularly Towers 5x $200. Check out the rakeback forums and make a post requesting rakeback offers before joining Tower.

Hollywood also offers some good sign up bonuses (do them through PSO) at 6x points. You wont need to change your game to clear these easily enough, compared to iPoker they clear fairly fast imo.

Microgaming would be one of my last choices personally.

Bobo Fett 11-22-2007 05:25 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do some bonuses through PSO and Savvy, they offer great value. As far as networks OnGame have very good bonuses, and although you need to contribute to the pot, are still easy to clear, particularly Towers 5x $200. Check out the rakeback forums and make a post requesting rakeback offers before joining Tower.

[/ QUOTE ]
Solid advice.

TopSpartan 11-22-2007 06:35 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Thanks for all the comments, it seems it might be worth investigating the Ongame network a bit further.

nosmith 11-23-2007 11:22 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]


Microgaming would be one of my last choices personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the microgaming sites are actually okay in that you don't have to contribute to the pot in order for it to count as a raked hand. Boylesports for example offer $100 match 800 raked hands of 25 cents or more to clear (very easy at NL50 and i presume PLO8). Another added benefit is the software is faster and more reliable than Ongames. I play on Ongame now (mostly NL and Sit and Go's) but that because ive already cleared the most profitable microgaming ones. I agree that signing up through an affiliate makes ongame a profitable alternative. Just thought i'd add another option.

bkkdude 11-24-2007 03:38 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
u a wise man sir.

dealt vs contribution is a big deal,especially if you like to play good starting hands.

ongame is contribution and is ok but it skks compared to bonus and rkbck at places like full tilt, cake and crypto.

ongame is best used to fill out yr multitabling.

orlov 11-24-2007 04:48 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
u a wise man sir.

dealt vs contribution is a big deal,especially if you like to play good starting hands.

ongame is contribution and is ok but it skks compared to bonus and rkbck at places like full tilt, cake and crypto.

ongame is best used to fill out yr multitabling.

[/ QUOTE ]
uhm i think tower bonus+rakeback that goes up to 75% beats FT rakeback any day.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-24-2007 06:15 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Also the shorthanded games at OnGame are 5 handed, so you contribute often enough and the action is always there. If you can beat the rake, you'll get a very nice hourly rate of collecting your bonuses.

Dealt method is definitely preferable for FR players that like to play TAG, I agree. But if you play anything at100NL and above you'll still clear OnGames bonuses relatively quickly, playing tight PF.

Bobo Fett 11-24-2007 07:03 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
Also the shorthanded games at OnGame are 5 handed, so you contribute often enough and the action is always there. If you can beat the rake, you'll get a very nice hourly rate of collecting your bonuses.

Dealt method is definitely preferable for FR players that like to play TAG, I agree. But if you play anything at100NL and above you'll still clear OnGames bonuses relatively quickly, playing tight PF.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.

bkk, your point is well taken about OnGame being contributed, but this isn't a problem for everybody. If you play SH, they are fantastic bonuses and bury pretty much everyone else's except perhaps Crypto.

tommyd7878 11-24-2007 07:21 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
Is there any chance of opening a new Tower account with rakeback.

Bobo Fett 11-24-2007 07:42 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is there any chance of opening a new Tower account with rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd try posting this question in the Tower RB thread in the A/R forum (next one down).

TopSpartan 11-24-2007 08:28 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
When I first joined Party I did so without a bonus. At the time I was a bit disappointed. Now 12 months down the line I'm quite glad I didn't get lured into working bonuses off. It has taken me a year/18 months to get to grips with playing poker to a half decent level. If I had tried to combine learning the game with working out which bonuses to work off I think it would have affected my overall game.
I am only just onto my second ipoker skin and already I can see it is going to take me longer than the first. The sites seem to have slightly different ways of calculating the points you are awarded per hand.

bkkdude 11-25-2007 04:09 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
now i get it.

contibution places r great if you move up in limits and play shorthanded.

if you play higher yr game better be good or else bonus and rkb wont matter.

is everyone here part of the 5% that actually win playing the game?

sir, why cant you clear bonus and work on game at same time. worked for me and i did get better at plo ,plo hi low.


thisnamedoesntfi 11-25-2007 05:23 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
now i get it.

contibution places r great if you move up in limits and play shorthanded.

if you play higher yr game better be good or else bonus and rkb wont matter.

is everyone here part of the 5% that actually win playing the game?

sir, why cant you clear bonus and work on game at same time. worked for me and i did get better at plo ,plo hi low.



[/ QUOTE ]

I clear all the bonuses on OnGame at FR PLO micro stakes easily. I play about 35% vpip which is not tight but not donkishly loose either. Basically I play any 4 cards in last 2-3 positions then tight elsewhere.

Bonuses wont help you if you are a habitual losing player, but they do mean the difference often, between just beating the rake and a decent return.

Good bonus whoring is essential for micro stakes players imo, because rake hits us the hardest.

bkkdude 11-25-2007 07:49 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
you must be one hell of a player.

u plya 1-3 of yr hands dealt and dont lose much and clear easily at microlimits.


i would like to see yr histories sir.......lol.

very hard to believe sir!

with yr resume u shouldnt be fiddling around at microlimits.

bkkdude 11-25-2007 12:31 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
this

give me yr nick on ogame as i also play micro limits,plo, there. i can then observe y you clear so easily when i dont.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-25-2007 05:50 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
you must be one hell of a player.

u plya 1-3 of yr hands dealt and dont lose much and clear easily at microlimits.


i would like to see yr histories sir.......lol.

very hard to believe sir!

with yr resume u shouldnt be fiddling around at microlimits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, you seem skeptical. I have no reason to lie, and I'm still at micro limits 25PLO and 50PLO because I would have only 20 buy ins at 100PLO, which is no where near enough.

Not only am I not losing much, but i'm beating the ridiculous amount of rake by quite a margin.

I wont be giving you my SN on PR, I wouldn't do that anyway, but certainly not after the tone of your post and you now know my stats over a fairly large sample. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[img=http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3074/trackerrb5.th.png]

bkkdude 11-26-2007 02:15 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
20 buy ins at 100 plo is enuff. i play same level as you and unles you stink to high heaven you dont need that much.

my tone.......lol. dont be such a thinned skinded dude, how u gonna handle phil hellmuth.........lol.

dont u love peeple who can talk a big game and when they have a chance to show it they decline.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-26-2007 05:38 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
20 buy ins at 100 plo is enuff. i play same level as you and unles you stink to high heaven you dont need that much.

my tone.......lol. dont be such a thinned skinded dude, how u gonna handle phil hellmuth.........lol.

dont u love peeple who can talk a big game and when they have a chance to show it they decline.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you think I'm someone who talks a big game and then doesn't back it up? I just backed up my "statements" after you showed doubt that you could win playing 1/3 of your hands right. If you want my SN so you can come on my table and take my money, forget it. I'm happy to play anyone that sits down but I'm not interested in personal battles. I leave that to the young egomaniacs.

I talk big bonuses in this forum, I don't normally go out of my way to brag about my results, especially over such a small sample.

20 buy ins is enough to take shots at PLO100, but it wouldn't be enough for it to be my main game. I have had 2-3 15BI or more downswings in the space of a month. I'm not a good enough player to be sure of not having those kind of downswings.

Bobo Fett 11-26-2007 07:50 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
I'll start by saying I know nothing about Omaha. What I will say is that in SH FL Hold'em, 35% VPIP isn't that ridiculous. I'd say a good player would more often fall into the high 20's, but I would think there are plenty of winning players well into the 30's. Especially 5-handed. Not sure how well that translates to Omaha.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-26-2007 10:00 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
In Omaha you can get away with playing more hands preflop, but only if you are good at reading relative hand values on the flop. I tend to play more speculative hands when there is a lot of weak tight, nut peddlers, of which there are many at micro stakes PLO. I'm sure my overall numbers come from a mix of sessions with 45/5 and others where I play more TAG at 23/15. It really depends on the table.

Bobo Fett 11-27-2007 02:50 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
weak tight, nut peddlers

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, what are you calling bkk?

Haha, just kidding bkk, couldn't resist. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

bkkdude 11-27-2007 03:45 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 

talking on a forum is not backing up what u say.

show me the munney mr this. i want to se how ez u clear ongame bonuses at microlimits.''

i really dont care if u good player or not.

fix hold em and plo not same same.

maybe just maybe mr this is not quite the player he thinks he is. 15 buy in downswing is quite big. even though i suked at nl hold em i never had that big down draft.....lol.

he might be the type of player who plays ny 4 cards and prays a lot. under this scenario i can see bonus clearing at ongame is ez.


more nutpeddlers at crypto than ongame. ongame plo quite fun just hard to clear bonuses.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-27-2007 04:44 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]

talking on a forum is not backing up what u say.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is a bonus forum, I made a statement about clearing bonuses at OnGame and how I did it. You were skeptical, I showed you some stats which "backed up" my statements, you went on some childish rant from there, which apparently you're still on.

There is a way to stop from ever having 15BI downswings and that's to be a weak tight nut peddler.

[ QUOTE ]

show me the munney mr this. i want to se how ez u clear ongame bonuses at microlimits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I clear them at a rate of 1 point for every dollar of rake in which I have contributed.

Back on topic.

At a mix of 50PLO and 25PLO I played something like 3500 hands for every 1000 points. So for $200 (5x) bonus at Tower.

Clearing the Savvy bonus at Noble Poker I gained $10 in Noble bonus money in 344 Hands. So a 10x bonus at Ongame would compare favorably with one of the easiest iPoker sites, for me at least. I hope that helps the OP.

bkkdude 11-27-2007 06:04 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
why u guys push ongame is beyond me. u peeple r nutts.

ongame cant hold cakes jockstrap when it cums to clearing bonuses.

Bobo Fett 11-27-2007 06:36 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
why u guys push ongame is beyond me. u peeple r nutts.

ongame cant hold cakes jockstrap when it cums to clearing bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, bkk, you're the one who often pushes one site. If you look through my posts, you'll see I often mention a few different networks.

Yes, I often lean towards OnGame, but I rarely make a blanket statement like "site x cant hold site y's jockstrap when it cums to clearing bonuses". Do you know why? Because a statement like that is often wrong...as is yours. I've played at Cake. I make a little over $4/table hour in bonus on Cake. I make about $7-8/table hour in bonus on Tower.

If you want to tell me Cake is better than OnGame for PLO, I won't presume to tell you otherwise...I have no idea. But to tell me simply that "ongame cant hold cakes jockstrap when it cums to clearing bonuses" is incorrect, plain and simple.

bkkdude 11-27-2007 08:02 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
any contribution place cant hold a dealt places jockstrap and thats just the way it is.

what limits u play to make $8 an hour per table.

me and this play micro.

i want to hear from someone other than bobo. you and i just dont see things the same way.

when is someone gonna say they make more clearing rakeback at dog than anyplace else. dog is weighted contribution btw.

Bobo Fett 11-27-2007 08:13 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
any contribution place cant hold a dealt places jockstrap and thats just the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, it depends on what you play, and that's just the way it is. I'll leave it at that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
what limits u play to make $8 an hour per table.

[/ QUOTE ]
2/4-3/6 SH FL. Mostly 2/4.

bkkdude 11-27-2007 08:18 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
u not a small limit player guy. thats y its ez for you.

pot limit games , most pots small, very few get to max rake level.

this is y i doubt thiss ability to clear so ez at micro games.

play same type game at dealt and contribtio n place and u make more at contrbution place is hard for me to understand.

it is so ez to clear $100 at crypto even with their nit picking games than it is to clear same amount at ongame , same game same limits at both.

Bobo Fett 11-27-2007 08:38 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
it is so ez to clear $100 at crypto even with their nit picking games than it is to clear same amount at ongame , same game same limits at both.

[/ QUOTE ]
On this we can agree. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

thisnamedoesntfi 11-27-2007 05:08 PM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
I can see a comparison between Crypto and the 9x Ongame bonuses, but the 5x/6x, I don't see how Crypto beats that. I'm basing that off Crypto being the same as Everest system. Am I right that it's 16.67x dealt?

@BKK, Which bonuses are you having trouble clearing at OnGame?

bkkdude 11-28-2007 12:52 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
the 7x. im not having trouble its just tha t it takes a long time when u compare it to a dealt room.

ongame games r no doubt livelier and therefore more fun but there r better rooms for bonus and rakeback clearing. WAY BETTER!

thisnamedoesntfi 11-28-2007 04:24 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
If the games are livelier (imo they are too due to bonuses being contributed) there is more dead money, larger pots = more points per hand.

I haven't played on Crypto yet (looks like I'll have to go there next) but their system looks identical to Everest. Everest imo, doesn't clear as quickly as OnGame unless I sit at a new table,(which I do) and get double points.

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 05:16 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
I can see a comparison between Crypto and the 9x Ongame bonuses, but the 5x/6x, I don't see how Crypto beats that. I'm basing that off Crypto being the same as Everest system. Am I right that it's 16.67x dealt?

@BKK, Which bonuses are you having trouble clearing at OnGame?

[/ QUOTE ]
BW shows it as 14.28x. Most Cryptos are 5x, which is why they crush Everest, and are even better than OnGame at many limits. Cryptos aren't quite as good at the micros, since you either get 0.25 MPPs (for $0.25 rake) or 1 MPP (for $1 rake), nothing in between.

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 05:17 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
ongame games r no doubt livelier and therefore more fun but there r better rooms for bonus and rakeback clearing at the games/stakes I play. WAY BETTER!

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP.

bkkdude 11-28-2007 05:45 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
ahhhh....

mr this get yr ass on crypto and you will see what a diifferee dealt method makes.

in a month if you hit all cryptos one can easily clear over 1k only in bonuses even with nit pickers. nd then add on yr rakeback. and then if u as good as u say you r u will be making 7-10 times what the average thai person makes.

sorry bobo but u specialize where there is less players than where op, this and i hang out.

still it doesnt matterwhat game or limits one plays, dealt method will result in faster clearing and thus more money in yr pocket.

Bobo Fett 11-28-2007 06:46 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
[ QUOTE ]
sorry bobo but u specialize where there is less players than where op, this and i hang out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean by less players, but yes I play a different game than the three of you. Not sure any more how I let myself get involved in this debate. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
still it doesnt matterwhat game or limits one plays, dealt method will result in faster clearing and thus more money in yr pocket.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm really trying not to be a nit, but I just can't let this go unchallenged. As you gave stated it, this is simply not true.

If two sites offered exactly the same bonus terms, except that one required a contribution to the pot for you to get any points, then of course players with a reasonable VPIP would be better with the dealt bonus. However, this is not what's happening. OnGame has better bonus clearing terms than most sites, but this is mitigated somewhat by the fact it is a contributed bonus. Therefore, for some players, the bonus is not as good. Let me assure you once again that for FR SH players, it is the best recurring bonus I have found outside of Crypto.

thisnamedoesntfi 11-28-2007 07:01 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
*goes to BW to have a really hard look at what have missed concerning Cryptos bonuses.*

I still say OnGame is good compared to iPoker at Micros, anything I said about OnGame was not comparing it to 5x dealt bonuses, of which I was blissfully unaware.

Also don't remember saying I was all that good, just that I could clear bonuses easily enough at OnGame and not lose money. We all know you don't have to be that good (I have been playing poker since June so am a novice) at poker to beat Micro stakes fish.

bkkdude 11-28-2007 07:06 AM

Re: ipoker bonuses vs. the rest
 
u r hard.

name a dealt room where its harder to clear bonuses than ongame.



or llook k at it this way why is it that rooms go from dealt to contribution, not the other way aound.

it wouldnt surprise me to see all rooms go to contribution method. if full tilt did i bet cake would too.


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