5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

A common five-card draw situation that I'm trying to get a handle on: 2-3 limpers, and I'm in the big blind with A-high or worse.

Any thoughts on what to draw to with these hands:

AT863 (no flush draw)
KJ572 (no flush draw)
KJT94 (no flush draw)
KhQhTs3h2h
T9762 (no flush draw)

I'm looking for general principles about what to draw for in addition to specific answers about these hands.

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

I'd draw 4 to your ace or king on the first three hands. If you were against only one limper, particularly someone completing from the SB so you are in position, I'd probably draw 2 to the two highest cards. The reason for this is someone who just completes the SB usually has either a weak pair or a draw that they want to take a cheap shot at. If the SB draws 3 and you draw 3 as well, you can either bluff (if you miss) or make a thin value bet (if you pair up or better) when they check to you. If they draw 1, it's usually a draw and if they check you can get a cheap showdown and you'll be surprised at how often Ace-high or King-high will be good. If the SB is a chronic post-draw bluffer you might even be in the uncommon situation where you can use Ace-high as a bluff-catching hand (use this play sparingly). When this works, it will sometimes put the SB on tilt and will generally give you the image of being an "action" player. It's usually good in 5CD for players to think you are looser than you really are.

If you are OOP and fail to improve, you are usually in check/fold territory.

On the 4th hand, go ahead and draw one to your flush. Drawing any other way is likely to result in either a hand with no showdown value or something like a pair of kings or queens that will not stand any action in a multi-way pot. If you make your flush, you are almost always good and if you miss, it's easy to get away from.

The fifth hand I'd just dump all 5. I don't draw to gutshots (except maybe 4 to a broadway straight-the reason being that if you pair a broadway card you have a decent chance to win the hand) because unless you hit the straight you will have to dump the hand to any bet, as it will be foolhardy to call down with TT or worse. Usually you'll pick up 5 more dreadful cards and you just fold, but sometimes miracles happen. I won a huge pot in the big PL 5CD tournament at PokerRoom last spring drawing 5 in this situation and catching a fluke straight on the 5 card draw.

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

Tom, many thanks!

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

I agree with Tom. Draw to flush in the fourth hand BUT if you didn't have high cards in the draw, or your only card above ten was the card you had to discard, I might draw to the ace if you didn't have so many limpers.

Also, often you find yourself with a hand like AK443 in the BB and the button and or the SB limps. In this situation, if the button is on a draw which he often is, then he'll draw one, and the SB will draw 3 to something like 77XXX. In this case you're pretty far behind if your 44's don't improve but you have a decent chance to suck out on both hands if you draw to your AK--- you'll beat the 7's and if that flush draw pairs something higher than 4's then you might beat them too. OF course, if you hit trips 4's and your flush draw hits then your improvement is still usless, though if the flush draw improves to a pair you might still beat him.

Also, if the button with bluff his failed come draws, it's not even worth it to call down with 44's but might be to call down with AA's should you improve.

of course IMHO

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

While I agree with a lot of what Tom says, I'm loathe to draw 4 if I have two (or even three) unsuited broadway cards, because it invites people to take shots at me. With merely one pair, I'll take free showdowns all day, thank you very much. Drawing 4, it's my experience, lessens that.

Additionally, drawing 2 or 3 puts you one card closer to making a straight -- a hand no one will give you credit for when you get it.

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Additionally, drawing 2 or 3 puts you one card closer to making a straight -- a hand no one will give you credit for when you get it.

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And how often exactly is that going to happen? It's the same thing as playing 72 to big action in holdem because they're suited. Yeah, it'll hit eventually.

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
While I agree with a lot of what Tom says, I'm loathe to draw 4 if I have two (or even three) unsuited broadway cards, because it invites people to take shots at me. With merely one pair, I'll take free showdowns all day, thank you very much. Drawing 4, it's my experience, lessens that.



[/ QUOTE ]

There's no point me regurgitating this, so I'll merely quote it and say I agree wholeheartedly.

Re: 5 CD (limit) -- Guidelines for drawing w/garbage in BB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Additionally, drawing 2 or 3 puts you one card closer to making a straight -- a hand no one will give you credit for when you get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how often exactly is that going to happen? It's the same thing as playing 72 to big action in holdem because they're suited. Yeah, it'll hit eventually.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? We're talking about what to draw to with garbage when getting a free play in the BB, not donking off all your chips by going up against hands you know are superior to yours.

But to answer your question, when drawing two to three open-ended connected cards (234 all the way to JQK), you're a 22-1 dog to hit.